horsesfirst
|
And then the vet said'The trouble with barefoot is that frequent trimming makes the hooves weak'........ 
Fortunately Madam's 'Mum' is toughening up and wisely asked 'Please explain why and how?'. Got no answer though.
Makes it very hard to be a newbie novice barefoot when you are faced with that kind of comment from an 'expert'. Good for her that she stood up to it.
|
Sez
|
RANT
You know being a barefooter sometimes makes you feel like you are living in The Matrix. Who tells the truth? What is the truth?
Can you believe farriers, vets, feed companies, the Lami Trust? To me it is as though half speak with an agenda and the other half through ignorance.
Case in point:- I have used treeless saddles for the last 7 years with no problems at all. I am happy with my saddles and so are my horses. Treeless saddles are just like any other saddle - may suit a horse or not. According to the Worshipful Co of Master Saddlers my horse's should have dropped dead by now
|
cptrayes
|
And I thought I had a stupid vet. That takes the biscuit, it really does!
C
|
brucea
|
Well, maybe the vet has a point - there is something to be cautious about there. When I started down this road I tended to be a bit obsessive about keeping the feet trimmed and very neat - a raggie or a slight flare was an insult to my level of dilligence and committment to my hoof care regime and had to be rasped to a nice finish. 
Now I keep my hands off the hooves unless they obviously need done, and I have less footiness as a result.
I feel a bit ashamed to make that confession openly like this - but there you go - one can be a bit over-zealous as a beginner, and just have to learn when to leave well enough alone.
|
horsesfirst
|
As a pedant I have to point out that frequency is not the same as inappropriate or over enthusiastic or incorrect. (Sorry )
If frequency was a problem then horses would have to 'hover' like the latest new Darleks, so that their feet were not trimmed by the terrain 
Maybe we could teach them that they are allowed to walk over things just twice a month (but on rough stuff that might be too much?) but they have to float the rest of the time so that they do not trim their hooves too frequently? 
Sorry - I blame my parents; an English teacher and an engineer - terrible combination - my genes are all wrong so I will never have good feet...... and will always fuss the details
|
brucea
|
Frequency can be "inappropriate or over enthusiastic or incorrect"
What we don't do is just as important as what we do. I had to learn when to leave well enough alone .
My parents were a stone mason and a Church of Scotland Minister! No hope of normality with me either, and my kids are doomed. 
|
horsesfirst
|
Well at least you can be assured of a decent burial?
No its the amount and where you take it off - if the frequency means the foot is being trimmed exactly as nature intended, even if the foot is done every day its not too frequent
Its a bit like sex really - its not the frequency that counts but whether it is done well and with perfect timing
Or I suppose prayer?
But then I got kicked out of (Quaker) Sunday school at about age 5 so what would I know?
|
cptrayes
|
Have to echo horsesfirst here. I trim little and often (easier for me!), and never have any issues. I always felt that a foot which is perfect after a trim is less perfect after a week (unless it's perfectly self trimming ) so I'm happy to do them as often as I see anything out kilter. As one of Nic's horses shows, though, you do have to let the foot grow enough to know what "kilter" is for that particular horse. No trimmer worthy of the name would want a foot to look like her odd chestnut (Hector?)
C
|
becnreps
|
| Sez wrote: | RANT
You know being a barefooter sometimes makes you feel like you are living in The Matrix. Who tells the truth? What is the truth?
Can you believe farriers, vets, feed companies, the Lami Trust? To me it is as though half speak with an agenda and the other half through ignorance.
Case in point:- I have used treeless saddles for the last 7 years with no problems at all. I am happy with my saddles and so are my horses. Treeless saddles are just like any other saddle - may suit a horse or not. According to the Worshipful Co of Master Saddlers my horse's should have dropped dead by now |
Sez, most of the things you say are so very true.
Who do we trust?!
And in my eyes, what is more annoying is that we are doing it the "natural" way and the way that horses should be (no shoes, high fibre low sugar diet etc) - and we are the ones that are struggling with this. The easiest thing to do would be to have them shod and feed a mollassed mix! Which is all wrong but is the way that equine world works!
Its difficult being barefoot when you are struggling and your vet, people on the yard and every other type of advice says that you should give up on it and "just put shoes on through summer".
What would be the point in putting shoes on through the summer? (According to the book) within a few months of the shoes being on, the heels would be contracting and the frogs shrinking. So then when I take the shoes off, he would likely be too sore to cope with the amount of work he does!
|
horsesfirst
|
According to 'House' (HL is sooooooo the man) 'everybody lies'.
If you adapt that a little, you could construe that everyone talks to their own agenda, from their own context.
My mantra is that the bulk of 'human kind' want to feel 'safe' - whatever safe means for them.
Unfortunately for most that means fitting in with the crowd. Innovation, or sticking your neck out, means taking risks, which are inherently unsafe.
So vets, typically conservative by nature because of their education and training will stick with what they know. Sad but true.
Sometimes I feel its not so much our attempts to make a better life for our horses by taking them barefoot that is the issue. More that in doing so there is an implied criticism of those that don't. It is not necessary to voice the criticism - it is the simple fact that by doing so you/we are not fitting in with the crowd. We are trying something different and different is 'dangerous'.
Sorry in reflective mood today
|
becnreps
|
| Quote: | | Sometimes I feel its not so much our attempts to make a better life for our horses by taking them barefoot that is the issue. More that in doing so there is an implied criticism of those that don't. It is not necessary to voice the criticism - it is the simple fact that by doing so you/we are not fitting in with the crowd. We are trying something different and different is 'dangerous'. |
Yes I agree with you here. I never criticise anyone for not having their horse barefoot. To be honest, if I did, I would be shot down in flames by most people. Nor do I really ever try and force my barefoot ideas onto anyone. I could probably try and encourage people that barefoot is a good option, but I dont. This is because I probably only know two people that agree with my decisions on being barefoot and everyone else thinks I'm doolalley! (ok so maybe I am ... a bit ... ) and everyone usually says "my horse cant go barefoot because ... "
I think there is some stigma attached to being barefoot because of all this - a lot of folks (particularly on other forums) think that we are a load of do-gooder "hippyish" type of people who want everything natural and think that everyone who doesn't go down the same route is an idiot. However, every barefooter that I have ever met has been far from that.
|
horsesfirst
|
I also think an important point is that the vet of frequent trimming fame could not back up their statement. Which is just embarrassing really. For everyone.
|
SueH
|
At the last visit, my vet said :" barefoot horses get more abscesses" . My rehabbing Tb had an abscess which arose from seedy toe which arose from big crack he had while shod.
Now this is a vet very open to barefoot and indeed thinks its the best thing for navicular. BUT he's not there fully there yet and he needs to see more to believe more.
At the same time he did say continue with the barefoot for 6 months and go to front shoes if you cant stop the infection creeping up the white line - as the shoe will block it off. I pointed out that if anything did get in between shoe and hoof it would also stay there, and he agreed.
Given that this horse didnt look entirely comfortable in shoes I dont think that's the answer. I think this horse will need a year to sort his totally fupped up digestive system out. I'm plugging dailly with white lightening gel and cotton wool with weekly soak of the white lighteing liquid and a weekly one of cider vinegar+ water and so far no more abscessing and the hole is looking bleached clean eachtime I take the plug out. The ground is uneven and very hard right now so he's less paddock sound than he was (although does seem to be happy to trot around ) but he is fairly happy on smooth hard ground e.g. concrete yard.
|
horsesfirst
|
| SueH wrote: | | he needs to see more to believe more. |
Nothing wrong with wanting to see the evidence - rather that than go with a fad or trend.
Which is where good marketing comes in (see another thread forget which one my brain is fried after no sleep for longer than I can remember).
|
Sez
|
| Quote: | | I think there is some stigma attached to being barefoot because of all this - a lot of folks (particularly on other forums) think that we are a load of do-gooder "hippyish" type of people who want everything natural and think that everyone who doesn't go down the same route is an idiot. However, every barefooter that I have ever met has been far from that. |
I thinkl we agreed our term for that was "wafty" 
|
SueH
|
| Quote: | | Nothing wrong with wanting to see the evidence - rather that than go with a fad or trend. |
I agree - and I think the reticence of some vets is from this. They are open minded but wary of jumping in at the deep end without some evidence to justify.
Its the closed minded vet I would struggle with. In my own profession, its the closed minded practicioner which irritates the rest of us. With these folk you can show them bucket loads evidence and they simply say "I've done it this way all my professional life and it works for me so I'm not changing". Its lack of professional confidence (to try something difference and/or just plain intellectual laziness. Makes me really cross!
|
stormybracken
|
Just changed vets, finally, after deciding I wasn't going to convince them to look at any of Nic and Sarah's research, or work WITH my farrier and chiropractor, both of whom ARE willing to at least discuss barefoot health with me.
New vet, at the end of 3.5 hours of investigations (during which he wasn't remotely footsore on gravel and concrete hurray!) and discussions, she said in answer to my nutrition query "just feed him something like Happy Hoof". 
Here we go again....
|
|
|
