August 2008

Sarah · August 2008

Went to Kelsall with Helen and Debbie, great fun as both Helen and Debbie like zooming Wink

.

Foxy flew round and jumped nearly all the jumps, really the only reason we didn't do all of them was bottling from me, he thinks he can jump anything ye ha!

Can't wait to go down to Nics next week and take him over her cross country course and pop him out cubbing, Morris is going to go too although he will be doing sedate things like hacking coz his arab brain can't cope with excitement yet Rolling Eyes

S x

SueH

Jake energy levels back nicely Smile

. Tried longer low-intensity hack on Saturday with half hour break. Basically let him chose the pace and he strode out all the way, trotted his favourite sections. Outpaced his pal who was very flat compared with Jake, left us wondering if there has been something 'going around'.

Coat shine returning gradually.

x
Sue

Yann

A bit of a dowturn here, we seemed to be on the up until the recent bout of hot thundery weather got the grass going again. We've also had no option but to switch from last years haylage to new cut hay - that might well be part of the problem too. They've switched fields onto cow grass and are both muzzled during the day, it doesn't usually delight them for long but I'm not taking any chances.

Rio is OK but not as good as she was a couple of weeks ago, she will still walk over rough stuff OK but avoids it given the choice, always a bad sign.

Tess is currently off work and on a course of antibiotics following a visit to vet hospital to have a loose tooth out. Doesn't seem to have made her any worse than she already was, will be interesting to see what if anything happens as a result. She's definitely feeling the stones, it's quite depressing but at least I know it's only temporary and we should be looking up again from here.

rose

July was not a good month for us and so far in August my girl has pulses all round and is footy on hard surfaces. I am riding her in boots all round with pads in and she is ok on soft ground and we take it easy on hard stuff.

In light of all my best efforts not working I have taken another approach. I have greatly decreased her bare paddock to about the size of three standard size stables and the ground looks virtually bare. I have given up soaking her hay as it made not one bit of differance that I could detect.

If her pulses are not to worrysome I have been letting her out in the big paddock for about 30 minutes once a day, not every day. She is no worse with this regieme and it makes her happy to be able to go out even for a short period.

So we struggle on!!! All a bit depressing really.

.

cptrayes

Lots of grass here too and Jazz not quiiiiiiite as solid as he was on big stones. Still, he managed a mile on a newly gritted road today without a murmur, in the course of an hour's hack on the road.

George is back jumping, me with a splint on my arm, him with gay abandon. SJ tomorrow, XC at 1m Sunday 10th, affiliated PN at the end of August, fingers crossed.

I have been making big efforts to get Zippy's frogs on the floor since the Bowker day, but his heels keep popping up again. I'll keep it up, because his frogs are wider and his feet look less foalie and more mature every time I do it.

C

hobnob

Chin up Rose - its not easy is it. Crying or Very sad

I have been there too. Can you tweak anything in her diet to try and make a difference? If you read my May and June (our worst months) threads in performance diary you will see that I have had great 'joy' with NAF Laminaze. I know all pones are different but it could be worth a go. Its not cheap but I am down to a maintenance scoop per day and I double it only when we have rain and hot sun etc - danger times. She is still only strip grazed but can tolerate more grass than she has in 18 months. On a maintenance dose a 1.2kg tub (£34) would last 40 days.

Jane

My three - all still going great guns. All better than ever and on more grass than ever - it may be down to the hoofmender. For the first time ever Magic is lasting a month between trims, hurrah!

Lami rehab - had a blip (no idea what caused it!) but seems to be back on track now. Feet looking great, if only they could perform that well, but its early days yet. He used to grow no foot and now his new angle is nearly half way down.

New boy - has started to get more sensitive - I think I'm over doing the grass and so he's back on a diet!

IR horse - seems to have picked up. Started on vitex..... seems to be helping.

rose

Thanks for that hobnob. I did try NAF laminaze after reading about it on this forum. I only bought the smaller tub at about £28 pounds and had her on the booster dose so it lasted hardly any time and I didn't notice any differance but perhaps I didn't give it long enough. The main ingredient seems to be bentonite clay which I guess may be cheaper to buy in another form because her other supplements seem to supply the other ingredients in laminaze ie magnesium, antioxidents and prebiotics.

I have also spoken at length to the advice line of the laminitic trust who suggested Vitex but I'm not sure about using it as my girl is so good and untroubled when in season I am reluctant to use a product which is primarily to help with seasonal problems. I don't want to upset her hormonal balance whilst trying to fix something else!

But I would be interested to hear more about why you decided to try Vitex and what benefit you are seeing.

Also do you think a longer try with Laminaze may be worth a go?

Many thanks

hobnob

Rose - to be honest I saw a difference in a few days with the Laminaze, but all pones are different. I also started feeding NAF Slimline about a week before the Laminaze so it could be that or the combination ?? My problem is I dont want to change anything now it's working. The bentonite clay slows the passage of food through the gut so I would think be a good start ?

hobnob

Just had an afterthought ...
... my lgl mare is always fine during her seasons, (like Rose's) you would never know she was having one. No nastiness or mare type behaviour. Does anyone think there is a pattern there ?

brucea

Vitex is an Agnus Castus aqueous extract, and although I shouldn't really express an opinion in a forum like this, it does seem to be hugely expensive for what it actually is. AC is considered to be useful for IR horses - and it costs about £4.50 a Kg from Cotswold Herbs - has a nice earthy peppery smell.

We grind, soak it and feed it as it is - you don't need much. A few folk in the yard routinely "borrow" a few days supply from me for up-tight seasony mares and riggy geldings - a few days seems to be all that's needed. They eat what they want from the hand, and then simply stop when they don't need it any more.

hobnob

Brucea - do you not have it growing wild in your Aberdeenshire hedges ? I would have a good look - it would be FREE then !! (sorry - havent had a pop at you for ages !!!) Very Happy

brucea

An Aberdonian was washed up on a beach after a terrible shipwreck. Only a sheep and a sheepdog were washed up with him. Looking around, he realised that they were stranded on a deserted island.

After being there a while, he got into the habit of taking his two animal companions to the beach every evening to watch the sun set. One particular evening, the sky was a fiery red with beautiful cirrus clouds the breeze was warm and gentle - a perfect night for romance.

As they sat there, the sheep started looking better and better to the lonely Aberdonian. Soon, he leaned over to the sheep and put his arm around it.

But the sheepdog, ever protective of the sheep, growled fiercely until the man took his arm from around the sheep.

After that, the three of them continued to enjoy the sunsets together, but there was no more cuddling.

A few weeks passed by and, lo and behold, there was another shipwreck. The only survivor was a beautiful young woman, the most beautiful woman the man had ever seen.

She was in a pretty bad way when he rescued her and he slowly nursed her back to health.

When the young maiden was well enough, he introduced her to their evening beach ritual. It was another beautiful evening red sky, cirrus clouds, a warm and gentle breeze - perfect for a night of romance.

Pretty soon, the Aberdonian started to get “those feelings” again.

He fought the urges as long as he could, but he finally gave in and, realising he now had the opportunity, leaned over to the young woman, cautiously, and whispered in her ear,

“Would you mind taking the dog for a walk?”

Very Happy

hobnob

Very good - we need a jokes page to get everyone through the up and downs of barefoot !!

hobnob

August - so far so good despite constant sun and rain. Having to press a little harder to find ribs on lgl pone so she must be finding some grass on the track! Have cut hay back a bit so we can easily find those ribs again (cruel mother). Smaller 'granite feet' pony has started growing winter coat with all this foul weather - cant believe its August. Lgl pones feet are now lovely and short. Loads of concavity but the OSF which is the only one which ever had a pulse is still a little more upright. Time I suppose. I lower heels and they grow back so I guess back of foot not quite ready to take the the strain !!

SueH

Update on Jake since virus.

Now had been on Vitamin & Mineral (high dose of Dodson & Horrell Surelimb to boost) 2 weeks. Showed imrovement in terms of 'perkiness' (for want of better vet terminology!) after being on this a few days.

Started on Vitamin E (major deficiency apparently as on so little grass) : initially got natural vit E capsules from health food shop until Elevate (Saracen) arrived. Jake's coat had been starting to improve with the VitMins but have seen notable difference since vit E I am sure of it - more depth as my instructor said when she saw him yesterday.

I am soaking hay for about 45 mins -1 hour and paddock has been cut down in half to reduce grass as much as I can. Bit difficult when its not your land - as you knacker the land getting rid of the grass and you end up with your horse in more mud when it rains.

Bottom line thogh: Jake is not as comfortable as in winter, even with all my grass restricting, feeding soaked hay. The only way for this horse to have great feet will be to get him off grass completely in summer. If we stay where we are (which has huge positives but no grass-free turnout whatsoever) summer will always be a compromise of diet paddcok + riding booted unless riding in the field. Other local yards I have looked at have gross negatives in other ways so the search continues....

x
Sue

Yann

I'm in a similar boat as far as feet v. everything else goes. I've made progress but I don't think I'm ever going to be able to do enough, especially with horse number 2. C'est la vie... so long as they're happy and comfortable in the field I think anything else is more my problem than theirs.

Things are improving again at last here, the new field was very lush and even muzzling all day didn't do enough so I reverted to part time stabling and muzzling, with ad lib turnout at night. I'm now going to try ditching the muzzles and see what happens, as the value of the grass in that field does tail off rapidly and it's a fine line between restricting intake and losing too much condition. Both of them are about right condition wise and don't want to be any lighter going into autumn.

Tess's feet don't seem to be any worse as a result of having a course of antibiotics, they're still flared but there is a tiny smidge of concavity returning once again.

Jane

Magic - Last week won a novice stressage on 75% and won a 1.05m SJ class with a double clear. Now entered for our first PreNovice Plus - (novice stressage and nearly nov SJ and PN XC) wibble.

New out of shoes - still excellent, although never as good striding when they've had another strip of grass.

Laminitic - had teeth xrayed for damage (on dentist referral) plus bloods came out anaemic. Feet look great but performance is still very up and down. Treating anaemia and waiting for specialist to look at head xray to see if tooth extraction needed.

SueH

Just a quick update, since Jake has been on the natural vitamin E (Saracen's Elevate), his coat is definitely changing colour, more shiny all the time. Still rough looking on shoulders but def coming on day by day.

Skin sensitivity started in Feb and which vet suspected due to over-rugging and so prescribed Maloceb shampoo. This has dramatically improved over last few days. Now I've heard about skin sensitivity with horses not doing so well on lots of grass on this forum. Jake's pen is now half size so very very little grass, so may be its this but also I think what's helping is getting supplementation right. Fingers crossed this is not just a blip.

x
Sue

sarahh

Both Boy and Tyler are still going great guns, all these weather changes and the resulting lush grass seem not to have affected them. Touch wood. Both continue to have fab feet and performing excellently, Boy especially, out twice a week with shows and riding club training, so a lot of mileage going on those tootsies. And he's only been bare since Nov!

cptrayes

Rock stomper Jazz is back inside during the day because all this rain is definitely giving him too much grass Sad

. Poo has turned lighter green and is more pat than balls. Pulses are up. Saw him wimp on a stone this morning. So better safe than sorry, he's in the barn with a slice of haylage. He seems happy enough unless I go near him, when he cries to be let out Confused

Damn this weather. Too much water, too much grass, too little sunshine. How long before we get a summer, this is the second year in a row Evil or Very Mad

C

Yann

Appalling isn't it.

The only thing I can console myself with at our end is that although we're not doing great as a result of it, we're still doing way better than we were last year Confused

rose

My girl has picked up a bit since I have reduced her paddock. I am riding her in boots and pads x 4 and she is sound in these but footy on the road otherwise.

She has lost a bit of weight and eating loads of hay, about 5 large leafs a day (she is only 14.1hh) plus her sugarbeet, alfalfa and supplements bucket feed. I have started her on additional oil to try to regain some weight.

This year three horses on my yard have had mild bouts of laminitis. Have others experienced an incease in laminitis too?

.

SueH

Jake really picked up now - buckeroo is back. [He has to stay at back or well out in front as he has twisty buck and can catch his mates when he gets excited...clearly the reason he's been sold on bless him .]

Out yesterday with some friends including guy on ex-racer who ploughed on in front twice...and twice Jake not impressed and did mega special rodeo buck catapulting me into supergymnastic sumersault - landing on back both times. Evil or Very Mad

I escaped unscathed only to get back to yard and wack myself with the trug trolley handle whilst rushing poo picking. Mad

Blood all over the place, I'm rushing around like an idiot in a carry-on film cos I thought I'd lost an eye in the panic.

this morning no pain whatosover from catapult experience but have super sore head and eye has survived but is turning nice shade of purply-black: I look a treat Rolling Eyes

x
Sue

Nic

Bad luck SueH, hope you are back to normal soon.

I am with Caroline on the non summer that has been 2008....The grass I was planning to cut for haylage was green, thick and lovely about 3 weeks ago, now thick and yellowy and lots of it is flat on the floor after gale force winds and 7 inches of rain in the last couple of weeks...and STILL no prospect of harvesting anything.... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

Horses hating it, and desperate to be allowed to stay on the track and more saliently in the barn...Foul FOUL FOUL....

Only good thing was that Sarah has been down with me all week and we got enormous amounts of work done as there was almost NO temptation to spend time outside on horses... Crying or Very sad

Jane

Magic did a PN yesterday. I wasn't going to run xc as the ground was horrendous - hard underneath and like ice on top.....

Then he was firing on all cylinders after SJing so we went for it and he absolutely stormed it!! Clear, a few time faults as I was playing safe but he was the best he's ever been!

Full report on the blog but I can honestly say now that was the safest I've ever felt on slippy going, shod and studded or shod or barefoot.

And I had everyone asking how we 'cope' minus studs.... I could hold head up high and say EASY!!

Full report on blog but the black boy is most definately in my good books!!! Laughing

brucea

Spent some time with Anni this weekend and we went through the before and after pics for all three of our lads. It was an interesting experience seeing how the heels have opened out and strengthened, the frogs widened, decontraction behind and in the coronary bands, greater symetry, hairlines level, horn quality unrecognisable, all hoof angles changed for the better, toes shortened, cracks gone, tighter white lines....all in all it was utterly fascinating to see what has changed - even the overall shape of the horse through using themselves better, and how they stand has changed too.

I feel so proud of them! Learning curve...I hope I never step off it.

cptrayes

Barefoot eventer speaks for itself!

C Shocked

SueH

utterly gorgeous photo - what an ambassador for barefoot. Very Happy

wouldnt it be nice to see this sort of photo on the front cover of a traditional horsey mag

x
Sue

hobnob

I spy the tendon boot on your arm !! Brill idea.

We have had a blip (starting yesterday). Has been really very wet lately (had anyone noticed) and lgl pone is not so good on stones Evil or Very Mad

Thinking it is probably the grass growth as she has been having a small section each night for weeks and weeks, but also thinking it may be utterly water logged feet ?? Frogs are very soft although feet look great with loads of concavity. Also trying not to blame the small amount of grass she has had as normally she is footy down hill when having a lgl episode but she is fine downhill ?!

Needless to say we are off the grass for a few days anyway to see how we go Confused

cptrayes

£50 for an arm splint that I can never use again (hopefully I won't be breaking another!!!)

£55 for a pair of boots I can use on the horses after another month or so

NO CONTEST Laughing

C

ps Hobnob Jazz has the biggest pulses he has had all year right now if he's left out 24/7. He wasn't this bad in the spring! All this water Twisted Evil

brucea

A few weeks back, a farrier mate of mine was kicked in the inside of his leg just above the knee - he said "ouch" and a few other four letter words - but told me it wasn't that hard a kick and his knee was ok after some vigorous rubbing and more cursing - but when he tried to walk he found his ankle was fractured!

How's the arm anyway? Getting better?

And...can't you get the splint on the NHS and save the £50 for the boots?
(I can hear Hobnob winding up now..... Smile

)

hobnob

Caroline - I know I am not alone - no pulses on pony just wimping on stones !! Dont know which is better ! Confused

Brucea - I'm winding, I'm winding ...

OK - whats your best all time bargain oh Aberdonian one !! ?? Very Happy

Have you been to the fishmonger yet to ask if you can have his net !!

cptrayes

Oh George is my best bargain of all time (the horse in the photo) I paid £1500 for him in March as an unbroken 8 year old Laughing

Bruce you are a man after my own heart. I never spend a pound when I can spend 50p Very Happy

I've just found dermobion on a Belgian website so I can get it without paying a vet. Sheep wormers are 1/3 the price of Ivermectin for horses and it's the same drug. etc etc etc

The surgeon went mad when I told him I was going to ride Bruce Twisted Evil

There was no way in the world he was going to encourage me by giving me an NHS splint Crying or Very sad

The arm is great, well ahead of schedule. The inch that was missing has grown in and was just visible on the xray.

I just threw two splints this week - one on each end of the metal plate, just like a horse splint, hot and lumpy. The ends of the plate have embedded into my arm bone. I believe this is months ahead of schedule, but I am unusual in my healing powers. And lucky!

C

brucea

Best bargain recently? A pair of Ariat Cobalt boots - the lace ups - that I bought in Calgary for $72 - or £36 - they are about £170 here! Crazy. And they threw in a lovely pad for a driving saddle because they were just getting rid of the stock. Very nice, fits my pony perfectly.

Good stuff Dermobian - green and sticky and works - hard to get in the UK now. Net is a job for the weekend...going to Montrose for my Dad's 75th birthday so plenty of fishing boats there! Needs to be the right size of netting though....if you think I'm mean you should meet my Dad.

My farmer mate just got a few tons of carrots delivered for his cows...free carrots for a couple of weeks!!!! Yippee!!

Glad to hear the arm is getting better - make sure you are eating all the right things to support repair. Hobnob has my wife's contact details - if you need nutitional or wellness advice (free....well there is a small catch). Wink

cptrayes

Who paid the airfare to Calgary though Question

****** expensive pair of boots if you ask me Laughing

!

C

hobnob

Once you wear a pair of Ariats you wont want anything else. I am on my 3rd pair of Heritage (cant afford Devon Pro Cobalts !!), have the wellies and the Dubarry lookalikes !! I didnt wear them round Badminton with white jeans though !! (did anyone else see THOSE people !!) Very Happy

brucea

I'm lucky - I am working in Calgary, Vancouver, Denver, Indianapolis, Houston....lots of horsey places, and to top it all my boss has a stud and trotting outfit in Columbus Ohio.

So when I travel I generally work it around doing some horsey things, like going trail rides, visiting Spruce Meadows, Stampede Week, scaring the living crap out of myself on a trotter, buying horse stuff...

Occasionally I am distracted by work though...there just has to be a downside eh? Razz

White jeans eh? Very practical, and sooooo tasteful!

cptrayes

What on earth do you DO that takes you to all those places?

C

brucea

I work for a software company - we sell stuff into the Oil and Gas, Utility and Pharmaceutical markets.

I have active projects in all of these places - I'm a project manager. Whatever one of them is Confused

I miss my horses and ponies when I'm away though, downside of travelling. Sad

Tally

I did notice the arm stuff and thought it was some new kind of fancy body protector ! Laughing

Well, I have been known to ride with a brushing boot around my shin to alleviate buckle rub from my stirrup leathers. Did not look half as smart as you though !

Brucea - you're so lucky ! I used to be sent on business trip to the US when all I wanted was to be with my horse. Now that I have found a brilliant trainer in the US, I cannot get them to send me for love nor money Sad

hobnob

My business trips in my old jobs were great too. I went to go to MILTON KEYNES Cool

Actually if anyone comes from MK I thought it was actually quite pleasant - loads of roundigo's though (roundabouts !!)

brucea

I've been to Milton Keynes for work too. It was quite green and clean I thought.

It was such an exciting place, made even more so since I was visiting the "Institute of Chartered Accountants".

An early death would have been a merciful release. Confused

Jane

Piccies now up of us at Solihull.... not the most impressive ones ever, but the ditch palisade/hedge got him in the air alright!!

The owl hole - to prove I can concentrate SOMETIMES!

http://www.allinthemind.info/odds...rials/content/SJY_4353_large.html

The pièce de résistance - where's my parachute?

http://www.allinthemind.info/odds...rials/content/DSC_7778_large.html

jane stevens

Great pics Jane - nice looking horse too how long has he been barefoot?

Yann

Fed up. Both horses not doing quite so well again, and I'm fed up to the back teeth with easyboot gaiters wearing out and ripping on a regular basis. If wet summers like this one and the last one are here to stay I'm going to be shoeing my horses between May and September in future. All the extra effort, expense and worry just seem pointless, it's clear I'm never going to get either horse beyond where they currently are.

hobnob

A few days off the grass and on mud track and lgl pone is normal again !
Non footy, less grumpy and biting her mate again. Smile

Sorry to hear you're down in the dumps Yann. August is supposed to be a good month i.e. grass burnt from ALL the sun etc. Dont know about shoeing my ponies if the wet summers carry on - more like emigrate with them to a dusty part of Australia !! Very Happy

Then we could mone about all the dust instead of all the grass and mud.

Yann

In previous years Rio has usually returned to semi rock stomping by August, we had one brief glimmer about a month ago but she's in definite need of boots at the moment. Apart from the grass issue our yard is fantastic, and nothing comes close from a horse's (or riders for that matter) point of view in our immediate area. There's no chance of restricted grazing so it's a case of balancing stabling, muzzling, weight loss, middle aged stiffness and also mild COPD in Tess's case. Not only that but parts of our very scenic hacking can be foul in sustained wet weather, and boots get tested to the limit. Rio has been barefoot for nigh on 3 years and Tess 2 years and both struggle every summer, it's not so much the booting that bothers me as the avoiding stones and gimping around the farm even without heat or pulses, it does beg the question whether it's actually in their best interests. No such problems in winter of course.

The majority of the other barefoot horses and ponies at our yard are habitual rock crunchers, and most of those don't even get their grazing restricted.

brucea

My guiys all stomping. Did a 5 hour ride out on Link yesterday to the woods - booted in front and bare behind (the horse, not me Wink

) - lots of rough track and a fair bit of roadwork. Stopped at a local farm for raspberries and ice cream - very civilised! Took his front boots off a the farm for the remaining 2 miles of roadwork home.

What I have noticed is that his hinds must be getting much tougher around the heels; they were abraded, but not nearly so thoroughly worn down as they were on the same kind of hack a couple of months ago when he had basically worn the lot off! No real gimping over the stones except on one part where it was really rough fist sized sharp granite rocks so I got off and walked for a bit.

He had worn out his rolls on the road so put back in rolls and removed a few little raggies - but all in all much better than they were.

So sorry to hear it's not goign so well at the moment Yann, it is really tough at times isn;t it. We have had to take our cob out of the dry lot onto grass for day time to make space for another laminitic that needs to be in the lot. He's lost some concavity and is noticeably more careful on the stones.

Understand too about the gaiters - I've worked out they are great for everything except cantering. They tear apart. I wonder if the new material gaiters are going to be any better?

Was down in Arbroath today - and met a laminitc pony on grass that was laid last year, fertilised in the spring, the owner's husband is mowing the grass every few days in the pony paddock to keep it bowling green short so pony doesn't get too much grass and leaving the clippings on the ground! Pony is not getting out of low level continuous laminitis and feet are the most ridged I have ever seen! DOH... Confused

Yann

It is tough sometimes, and although it seems daft, ripping a gaiter on the Friday before a bank holiday and potentially scuppering my sharer's weekend riding plans (on a horse that didn't have any obvious problems in shoes) does make you question your sanity. Thankfully a lovely fellow livery stepped in and lent me a pair of G2's, so all hasn't been lost.

I do find the gaiter thing very frustrating - we do an awful lot of cantering and galloping and they just don't last, these days I can predict when they're just about to die. Very poor indeed considering how long the blooming things have been on the market, the 'new' ones are allegedly no better. I daresay big Renegades would help Very Happy

hobnob

LGL pony back to being a bit footy on stones Sad

No change in anything and was fine a day ago ? Bloomin 'eck ! She is on mud track and hay twice per day. As I think she is IR and I always struggle with her weight does anyone think that I may not be helping the situation with non adlib hay. She gets 2kg morning and night and during the day picks at dead nettles and the odd blade of grass. Also morning and night her Hi Fi Lite with supplements. The hay only lasts her about an hour and a half but am too scared to give adlib or she would consume a bale a day ! She is always hungry which I believe IR horses are. I was thinking about the sugar rush she mustnt have with 'meal times' but how can I safely let her eat all day !! Anyone any ideas ? Rolling Eyes

brucea

We feed ad-lib hay now, and really have not seen it makes a noticeable difference over the hay net/controlled forkfuls. When the bale first went in they did the "Pizza Hut all you can eat" thing and looked a bit bloated, but then they moderated themselves and ate normally.

In a way I'm more concerned about little lami lad and ?IR cob having no hay and nothing to eat for hours than eating too much hay.

As an aside I have concerns about hay nets - when B had small hole hay nets he actually wore his upper front teeth really weird and they grooved and gapped across the arcade span - and when Squack had haynets she slackened one of her front teeth and it had to be taken out. That material is quite tough and abrasive.

hobnob

I think my IR pony is a little smaller than Bramble. How much hay would Bramble eat on his own in 24hrs. Mine weighs 260kg (was 300, 18 months ago).

rose

I have much the same concerns about giving her hay split in to morning and night. I had fed her one evening about 4pm and had to come back down about 8pm and when I got there she had finished all her 4 leafs of evening hay so had nothing at all until morning about 9am!!

I am now feeding her later in the evening ie about 6.30pm but it still means she is without anything for long periods which worries me.

I can't give her a hay net as she is in a totally electric fenced section of the big field and as its a livery yard I cant just stick a large post on which to hang a net in the middle of my patch unfortunately.

I can't think of anyway round this either. I might just try your ad-lib idea just to see how much hay she would actually eat left to her own choice. I'll keep you posted.

..

hobnob

Mine get Hi Fi and hay at 7am. Hi Fi at 6.30pm. Hay at 9pm. If I didnt work I could put hay down during the day I suppose !! If I didnt work I would have to keep guinea pigs as opposed to horses though !! Nah Smile

evie

depends on my shifts but i try to ensure mine have hay no more than 12 hours apart. they're wasteful creatures when the ground's muddy so at the minute their hay is in nets, but if it ever dries out again i'll go back to putting it out in piles. means it lasts them much longer, too - before it lasted 6ish hours but there'd always be a few scraps for them to pick at along with the hedge, and now there is usually a little left (easily accessible, not total dregs) in the nets after 12 hours.

hobnob - do you space the hay out down the mud track so she has to meander between piles/handfuls? i would be really concerned about the risk of ulcers if she's without food for so much of the day. if you could balance increased food with increased movement you'd be on to a winner. you could soak the life out of it too, and/or feed some straw.

hobnob

Thanks Evie - the hay is soaked for 12 hours. At the moment they have it in nets inside the barn or around the track as the mud track is quite deep in places! If I feed it on the floor so much gets wasted. It was OK a week ago as I was moving elec fence at night so even though it was eaten down to the ground they could still nibble a bit during the day. She is never shut in and moves around and I leave piles of nettles and the odd tub of Hi Fi hidden on the track. She is not totally without food as she eats under the elec fence and hedges etc. I hear what youre saying about ulcers though. Do you think straw would be OK? Wheat or Barley or Oat? She's only 9 and has her teeth done annually so chewing should be OK.

brucea

Hobnob - I'd say that Bramble gets through the equivalent of 1.5 good sized haynets a day.

What ever else he gets I don't know and don;t want to think about - he whickers and gives paws and kisses, so all the yard kids give him stuff - I caught one giving him a pear yesterday. No mattter how many times I tell them gently.....kids will be kids.

When I put it out as piles on the ground there was a lot of waste and they peed on it- so we got a tombstone hayring and they have a round bale. Both are maintaining their weight fine with the ad lib hay and aren't getting porky at all. I've started letting Bramble have grass and herbs when we walk out becuase he's had a throaty eheh-eheh with the hay and I think he needs something soothing.

When we were slimming Bramble and Apollo down we regularly mixed barley straw and hay together - they picked through it and got the hay out and would eat the straw if there was nothing better available. Kept them occupied and didn't do them any harm, but I'd not be keen on just straw.

hobnob

Not footy again today and put out more hay in piles around track !

brucea

My daughter is off to bed very happy tonight - her pony Bramble went out in his gig for about 4 miles. He was offering a lovely forward trot and went beautifully. Booted in front with 12mm comfort pads, bare behind.

I walked out front on one of the steeper hills and was delighted to see that the exagerated paddling action he always had when he was shod has almost completely gone and he's straighter in front than he has ever been. Wearing his hinds to his own peculiar shape he likes them for driving - square!

He was tired, but very pleased with himself when he got back, and ravenous!!! It was lovely - quite a few folks came out from their houses to see him and commented that they had heard he had been ill, and how nice it was to see him again. He's a bit of a local celeb because he does all the school fairs, most of the kids in the village know him, and there's drawings of him in the school corridors!

V. proud of the wee chap. Need to be consistent now and rebuild the muscle he's lost and work back up to the 10 mile outings we were doing last year.

Very Happy

SueH

Jake lame on navicular leg Sad

(right fore) . Its low level and intermittent.

This is the one Xrayed last year and showing 'halos' on nav bone. However, nerve blocs showed both fronts were actually lame, right just more noticeable.

Was fine last week although he was a bit short going downhill but this is not unusual for weak heeled horse I think. I am wondering if he might have clobbered sole/heel jumping around paddock on lunge last week. Frogs still pathetic in front (but massive improvement on what they were ) so he doesnt have great deal of cushioning.

So its a bit of R&R for now.

The only other thing is I tried local haylage from Sat night to Tuesday this week but sent it all backas it went off quick. Not sure if its related. Looked perfectly fine but wondered if it could blip feet - although why would it not blip both the same??. Anyhow, we are back on soaked hay.

Hinds superb - my instructor remarked how bendy they were - not bad considering he was dead lame on hind last year with "knackered joint".

Coat really lookin good on Vit&MIn - real improvement came with Saracen Elevate Vit E though. Have to wait to see effect if anything on hooves...

x
Sue

brucea

Could be the haylage - we tried haylage a couple of years back - smelled wonderful - but pony went pottery and big lad colicked on it (probably due to the quantity he over-stuffed himself with) - cob, of course, was perfectly fine.

Nic

My guys and the rehabs have haylage 24/7 with no problems, so there should not be a problem with haylage per se, but just as all grass is not equal, nor is all haylage...

You want meadow haylage made from unfertilised pasture, and it needs to be fairly low moisture content (ie nearer hay than silage).

Hope he is better now, Sue.

Nic

SueH

Thanks Nic, well this stuff didnt seem too moist in comparison with other stuff I've seen. But it was not as dry as the wonderful stuff I got in winter. This stuff, according to D&H test: Dry Matter, Sugar and pH levels indicated a "reasonable amount of fermentation". The residual sugar level of this stuff was 5%. It was fairly dry actually (61.1% Dry Matter).

I am a very confused in working out the logic of the whole haylage/hay thing.

With a SC Laminitic, I am aiming at low sugar content. Now reading D&H test reports which say fermented haylage would have less residual sugar, I thought well fermented was best. But the D&H Forage Glossary also says that if the Dry Matter content is over 70% it may indicate a limited fermentation. So I read from that, if its too dry there wont have been sufficient fermentation to reduce sugar levels. How does that fit with aiming for haylage with fairly low moisture content Confused

- or may its just that you would say DM around 60 % is fairly low?

Also, by avoiding fertilised haylage, is the cos you fertilising would increase protein e.g. by Nitrogen increase ( and you need to also avoid high proteins for laminitics.)?? Confused

Nutritionist has advised that the only safe bet is to test and use hay (which should be soaked for about 20 mins to counter dust, spores) or haylage with low sugar. Still waiting for results back from D&H on this batch, but no more haylage unless its tested and all hay now well soaked. Will c how he goes - seems very content in his paddock chowing down for now.

x
Sue

brucea

Probably good point Nic - the stuff we got was quite moist and produced from fertilised cattle pasture.

Nic

Very, very roughly, hay has 20% or less moisture content, haylage has moisture content of 30-40%, and silage has higher levels, 50-75% moisture, as its left for a much shorter time.

If grass is too dried out, you can't make haylage from it - you need some moisture to ferment, as your DH person said. Both silage and haylage are fermented, but silage is much wetter (like the stuff Bruce described) - actually wet haylage is indisinguishable from silage Wink

The reason for avoiding heavily fertilised grasses isn't only the protein, but because they have less available minerals and because they tend to be lower in fibre, which suits cattle and sheep but not horses. Fields which have been artifically fertilised also usually have fewer plant species, and horses appreciate lots of different species in their forage, whether its hay or haylage.

Hope this helps,

N

hobnob

End of August report:

LGL pony been mainly off grass for 2 weeks and on mud track with hay spread out. Intermitantly footy on stones. All ripples and grown out and hoof walls are now lovely and smooth. Soles really concave and DC stronger - so footiness is bl**dy annoying WHY ? Mad

Yann

There's been some discussion on another board I visit about laminitis and coat changing - perhaps there is some sort of hormonal as well as dietary trigger with these problems? Apparently people have had problems with totally off grass horses too.

A few dry days and a noticeable improvement with Rio. It's raining again now though Confused

Tess seemed OKish too coming in, but I don't take her boots off until she's back in the field now. Her front toes are still very flared, but she's happy and we've been making the most of the stubbles without any booting woes so far.

Nic

hobnob

Wow thats really interesting Yann and Nic. Lgl pony is growing winter coat rapidly and she would normally be really stonking on 2 weeks of no grass. Nic - would her feet show no ripples if she was IR? They look so perfect its sickening !! Or does it mean that her IR is under control do you think ?

Nic