| Archive for uknhcp.myfastforum.org Natural hoof care resource forums for all those interested in barefoot horses |
| Nic |
Feed ingredients list - feel free to add yours!This thread is for listing feeds and their ingredients, for reference. Please list ingredients in full, as shown on the white label or listed on the bag.Please also give the full name of the feed or supplement and the company who produce it. Thanks! N |
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| becnreps |
Baileys Lo-Cal Balancer
Grass Meal, Distillers Grains, Wheatfeed, Micronised Soya, Dicalcium Phosphate, Molasses, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamins and Minerals, Yea-Sacc®1026 Yeast Culture NUTRIENT SPECIFICATION Starch 10% Sugar 2% (added by molasses) Protein 16% Oil 4.5% Fibre 12% Ash 15% Calcium 3% Phosphorus P 1.5% Potassium 1% Magnesium 6% Sulphur 0.3% Zinc 450mg/kg Copper 225mg/kg Selenium 1.7mg/kg Manganese 240mg/kg Vitamin E 800 IU/kg Iodine 3.5mg/kg Vitamin A 44,000 IU/kg Iron 600mg/kg Vitamin D3 4,400 IU/kg Cobalt 3.5mg/kg Also, someone let me know if this link works: Sugar & Starch Table Its a really good table of all the starches and sugars in some popular feeds. |
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| brucea |
MetaslimMetaSlim (Simple Systems)The ingredients are: lucerne leaf, cooked linseed, Brewers Yeast, cinnamon, seaweed, Spearmint, Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts) |
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| maggie345 |
Spillers Happy Hoof (4% starch, 3% sugar)
"A unique blend of oat straw, alfalfa, grass, mint, garlic and soya oil with added vitamins and minerals." Sorry, will have to look on the next bag for a full list of ingredients. Typical analysis: DE 8.8 MJ/kg Oil 4% Protein 8% Fibre 25% Starch 4% Vit A 10 000 IU/kg Vit D3 1500 IU/kg Vit E 200 IU/kg Copper 15 mg/kg Selenium 0.1 mg/kg I emailed them to ask about sugar content, and got: "In answer to your question about Happy Hoof, the sugar level by analysis is 3%. The molasses we use to coat the feed is called Molglo, which is a very low sugar version suitable for laminitics, which is how we keep the sugar level to a minimum." Dengie Hi-Fi Good-doer (1.5% starch, 8% sugar) Ingredients: Cereal Straw, Alfalfa, Molasses, Mould Inhibitor, Antioxidant, Mint Flavour, Lysine, Zinc sulphate, Manganese sulphate, Vitamin E, Copper sulphate, Sodium selenite. Contains permitted EC preservatives and antioxidants: Propionic acid and its salt, Sorbic and Phosphoric acid and Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA). Typical analysis (%) ‘as fed’ Protein 8.5 Oil 1.7 Fibre 40 Ash (mineral) 8 Copper, as copper sulphate 10mg/kg Selenium, as sodium selenite 0.2mg/kg Vitamin E, as alpha tocopherol* 81 iu/kg Digestible Energy 7MJ/kg Emailed again to ask about sugar/molasses in feed (also for HiFi lite): "Hi-Fi Good Do-er is coated with an ordinary molasses coating and sugar level is 8%, whereas Hi-Fi Lite is coated with a molasses extract coating, also termed low sugar coating, and provides around 5% sugar. To put this in perspective hay would typically provide 10% sugar and pasture anything up to 50% sugar. The starch level in both products is 1.5% or less and both products are completely cereal free. " |
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| Nic |
This is a mixture of soya oil and mollasses which is used in LOTS of feeds, so if you see it on an ingredients list, then thats what you've got 
As a matter of interest, straight mollasses has a listed sugar content of 47% and Molglo 40%, so its not THAT much lower in sugar 
And how, by any stretch of the imagination, is something which is 40% sugar
And here is another VERY naughty statement:
Even dairy cow pasture over the summer is rarely more than 25% sugar, so I have NO idea where they got that figure from - and we all know what dairy cow pasture in summer does to hooves
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| maggie345 |
Nic,
I know, that email reply is interesting  Maybe a tad defensive, because I asked them why anyone would think of putting molasses in a feed aimed at laminitics.
But at least they will tell you how much sugar/starch is in the feed! It's all about informed choices... |
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| maggie345 |
Thought I'd post this one as well:
Speedibeet (unmolassed sugar beet pulp) 5% sugar, no starch DRY MATTER 90.0% PROTEIN 10.0% OIL 0.7% FIBRE 16.0% ASH 9.0% STARCH - SUGAR 5.0% COPPER - CALCIUM 0.7% PHOSPHORUS 0.1% AVAILABLE PHOSPHORUS (DIGESTIBLE PHOSPHORUS 0.05%) 0.05% SALT 0.3% MAGNESIUM 0.3% LYSINE 0.45% METHIONINE 0.15% M&C 0.3% THREONINE 0.4% TRYPTOPHAN 0.1% DE HORSE MJ/KG 12.4 |
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| brucea |
Oh... and I'll give my horse a Molasses lick in his stable too then - just to drive him over the edge! Oh yes, and one of those LickIt blocks as well, just in case he isn't completely out of his box with that lot! 
Maggie - someone (can't remember who, might have been Anni) advised me to squeeze all the soaking water out of the Speedibeet and then rinse it with fresh water for the wee lami lads. |
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| Nic |
and don't forget Bruce, if your horses don't like their low sugar feed, you can make it tastier by adding molasses 
N |
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| becnreps |
teehehe oh dear me ... what ever happened to mint? why dont they flavour the feeds with mint instead of mollasses to make them appetising to fussy feeders? oh yes ... I know why ... money! 
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| Nic |
It would be nice to list as many feeds as we can - in particular the following are commonly used but its hard to find the ingredients, so if anyone can provide them...!
Blue Chip Farriers Formula Keratex hoof supplement Formula 4 Feet PS: Credit where credit is due, at least Baileys list their ingredients on their website www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk, which is more than most companies do... |
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| maggie345 |
Farrier's Formula: (From Life Data)
INGREDIENTS - Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal. Yeast Culture Lecithin. DL-Methionine. Soy Protein Concentrate. Ascorbic Acid. Biotin. Copper Sulphate Zinc Oxide. Cobalt Carbonate. Calcium Iodate. Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate. Vegetable oil. Permitted natural and artificial flavourings added (UE# 217C. 201C. 409C. 282C, 648C, 4T7C). Analysis: Nutrient Percent mg / 6 oz cup* (mg / 170gm) Crude Protein 17.00 % 17.00 % 29,000 mg Lysine 0.636 % 0.636 % 1,081 mg DL-Melhionine 3.644 % 3.644 % 6,195 mg Cystine 0.178 % 0.178 % 303 mg GIycine 0.452 % 0.452 % 768 mg Proline 0.349 % 0.349 % 593 mg Hydroxyproline 0.115 % 0.115 % 863 mg Tyrosine 0.208 % 0.208 % 354 mg Phenylalanine 0.642 % 0.642 % 1,091 mg Crude Fat 9.00 % 9.00 % 15,000 mg Crude Fibre, Max 20.00 % 20.00 % 34,000 mg Ash 10.00 % 10.00 % 17,000 mg Choline 1300 mg/lb 0.288 % 490 mg Inositol 700mg/lb 0.153 % 260 mg Biotin 14 mg/lb 0.003 % 5.3 mg Zinc 1450 ppm 0.145 % 250 mg Copper 540 ppm 0.054 % 90 mg Cobalt 7 ppm 0.0007 % 1.20 mg Iodine 4.7 ppm 0.00047 % 0.8 mg source: http://www.farriersformula.co.nz/farriers2.shtml |
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| maggie345 |
Formula 4 Feet
Ingredients: 25-40% Lucerne meal, 10-24.99% Minerals and Vitamins, Dried yeast (non-viable), <10% Beans, Soya Concentrate GMF, Toasted Soya Beans GMF, Vegetable Fat, Apple Flavour, Antioxidant E321. Analysis is too much to copy. Here's the link: http://www.equilife.co.uk/Ingredanalysis.htm |
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| brucea |
I was talking to a lady who uses Tesco Value curry powder (it comes in red and yellow flavours apparently) to flavour her horse's feed and hide the taste of any medicines.
Apparently he loves it. Probably good for him too? |
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| becnreps |
I understand my link didn't work ... is there any way that I can make a word document available so you all can see it?!
(I'm not very I.T techy sorry!  )
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| pat |
I am a cheap skate and don't use speedibeet but ordinary sugar beet that I rinse to get rid of the mollasses until the water runs clear. I tried washing speedibeet and got a fair bit of mollasses out of it. More that I would have expected. Pat |
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| rose |
This is really interesting. People so often hear something about a supplement and repeat it without any evidence to support it. I was told Formula 4 Feet had added sugar and it was therefore rubbish. I use it and it has no added sugar and is a very comprehensive supplement, what I also like about the company site is that it tells you why it has included certain things in it. The more info they are willing to give the better, obviously.
I don't suppose any one supplement is prefect and can meet every horses' needs but the more info we have the better we can compare. |
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| hobnob |
Allen and Page - Fast Fibre - this is all I feed with my powders !
Oil - 2.5 percent Protein - 8.5 percent Fibre - 27.0 percent Estimate DE - 8.0Mj/kg Starch - 5.0 percent Calcium - 1.1 percent Vit A - 10,000IU/kg Vit D - 1,500 IU/kg Vit E - 100 IU/kg Ingredients - (min 40 percent) cereal straw (treated), (10-25 percent) unmolassed beet, (less than 10 percent) oat fibre, expelled linseed, grass meal, Di-calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, expelled soya oil, sodium chloride, natural vitamins, vitamins and minerals, mint, herbs garlic. No figures I am afraid but vits and mins are : Vit A, D3, E, copper, selenium, K, Folic acid, nicotinic acid, pantothenic acid, B1, B2, B6, B12, biotin, iodine, cobalt, iron, manganese, zinc, potassium, sodium, calcium, phosphorous. |
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| rose |
With the Fast Fibre does anyone know what grass meal is other than just grass, and how the straw is treated or what expelled linseed and expelled soya oil actually are?
Thanks |
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| brucea |
Seaweed - Ascophylum Nodosum
Typical Analysis of Certified Organic Ascophylum Nodosum General Average % Moisture 9.0 Crude Protein 8.5 Crude Fiber 4.0 Total Ash (Minerals) 29.0 Fat 2.0 Carbohydrates (Nitrogen Free Extracts) 47.5 Major Elements % Calcium 2.1 Chloride 6.5 Potassium 2.7 Magnesium 0.85 Nitrogen 1.4 Sodium 4.0 Phosphorus 0.3 Sulfur 2.8 Minor/Trace Elements PPM Aluminum 289 Arsenic (FCC) <3 Boron 98 Cadmium 1 Cobalt 4 Chromium 0.8 Copper 4 Iron 622 Mercury 0.4 Iodine 780 Manganese 60 Molybdenum 2 Lead <5 Selenium 0.3 Tin 6.5 Zinc 12 Vitamins Retinol 390 ppb Riboflavine 4.9 ppm Niacin 182.6 ppm Ascorbic Acid 375 ppm Cholecalciferol 150 ppb Alpha Tocopherol 110 ppm Amino Acids % of total Amino Acids Alanine 5.52 Arginine 5.47 Aspartic Acid 9.88 Cystine 1.49 Glycine 5.70 Glutamic Acid 12.03 Histidine 1.29 Isoleucine 3.26 Leucine 5.63 Lysine 4.24 Methionine 1.07 Phenylalanine 3.54 Proline 3.71 Serine 4.92 Threonine 4.60 Tryptophan 1.68 Tyrosine 3.52 Valine 3.51 |
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| sarahh |
i know the Keratex people, will see if i can get info from them | ||||||
| gossip28 |
Total Eclipse - Simple Systems Complimentary Feed
Crude Protein 20% Oil 30% Fibre 8% Ash 8% Ingredients 25% - 40% Whole Cooked Linseed 10% - 25% Pure Ocean Seaweed, Stabilised Brewers Yeast |
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| Nic |
Had to add these, contents of my feed bin 
Dengie Alfalfa Pellets: Alfalfa Coolstance: Copra Expeller Meal Mole Valley Crushed Oats: Crushed Oats Charnwood Linseed: Cooked micronised linseed Brewers Yeast: Brewers dried yeast Seaweed: Dried seaweed meal AGMA Calcined magnesite: 85% calcined magnesite |
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| horsesfirst |
Rose - expelled linseed - linseed which has had the oil extracted (to waste on cricket bats...........).
Then the solid linseed 'waste' is bound with glucose (upto 10%) and sold as linseed lozenges. Originally intended as cattle feed they have now found their way into some horses' feed buckets. Ok if you don't feed linseed for the oil content and don't mind the added sugar. I have found that the sugar content is discretely mentioned on a small white square of paper which is stitched to the bag and which tends to fall off at the lightest provocation. So it took a bit of sleuthing. 
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| rose |
Interesting, thanks | ||||||
| Allywags |
BalancersHiThis is interesting to me ...listing all the ingredients...cos I have been trying to work out the difference between the following 2 balancers and appear to be clueless.. There would seem to be such a huge difference in figures Both figures are quoted per kg. How as an example can vita A be so different?
Top Spec Per kg Vitamin A iu 60,000 Vitamin D3 iu 7,500 Vitamin E iu 2,500 Vitamin K mg 20 Vitamin C mg 20 Vitamin B1 mg100 Vitamin B2 mg100 Vitamin B6 mg 100 Vitamin B12 mg0.5 Niacin mg 120 Calpantothenate Mg100 Folic Acid mg 60 Biotin mg 30 Cholin mg100 Copper mh200 Managanesemg300 Zincmg500 Ironmg200 Seleniummg3 Cobaltmg4 Iodinemg2 Calcium%2.5 Phosphorous%1.2 Salt%1 Magnesium%0.35 MSM2 Glucosamineg) Lysineg16 Methionineg5 Yeast MOS 60billionmg Protein%25 Oil%6 Fibre%8 DE dry matter MJ14 DE as fed MJ12.5 Equimins INGREDIENTS: Wheatgerm, Ground micronized linseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Limestone, Vitamins, Minerals, Trace elements, Organically bound minerals, Saccharomyces cerivisae, Inulin oligosaccharide, probiotics, prebiotics Analysis: Oil 6.5% Protein 17.5% Fibre 2% Ash 55% Moisture 9% Vitamin A 625,000 iu/kg Vitamin D3 125,000 iu/kg Vitamin E 17000 iu/kg Vitamin B1 1000 mg/kg Vitamin B2 1000 mg/kg Vitamin B6 800 mg/kg Vitamin B12 3.25 mg/kg Biotin 175 mg/kg Pantothenic Acid 1300 mg/kg Vitamin C 1500 mg/kg Choline 15,000 mg/kg Nicotinic acid 2100 mg/kg Zinc Methionate 15000 mg/kg Calcium 4.25% Phosphorus 2.25% Sodium 5% Magnesium 4000 mg/kg Folic Acid 500 mg/kg Vitamin K 1225 mg/kg Zinc 2750 mg/kg Lysine 80,000 mg/kg Iron 1000 mg/kg Copper 1375 mg/kg Cobalt 125 mg/kg Iodine 85 mg/kg Selenium 30 mg/kg Manganese 5000 mg/kg Methionine 15,000 mg/kg Inulin Oligosacharide 10,000 mg/kg Organic Minerals bound to a yeast cream: Magnesium 5000 mg/kg Zinc 750 mg/ kg , Copper 500 mg/kg , Chromium 5000 mg/kg Iron 100 mg Manganese 1000 mg/kg, Cobalt 1250 mg/kg, Selenium 15 mg/kg Probiotics: Lactobacillus Acidophilus & Bifidobacterium 10 billion cfu/g Sacccharomycyces Cerivisae 20 billion cfu/g |
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| hobnob |
I think Yann uses Equimins Hoofmender with success? | ||||||
| stormybracken |
This is the answer to my query about the ingredients of this wormer, although not a "feed" it is still something I may "feed" to my horses.
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| brucea |
£nearly50 for a tub of ingredients that costs less than £2...one has to question it.
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| SueH |
Top spec lists Vitamins quite generally. Eg "Vitamin E iu 2,500" - I wish they would stipulate if it is the natural or synthetic.
A case in point is Vitamin E, for example, the d- form of vitamin E derived from vegetable oils and other natural sources is different from the dl- form (which is often called the synthetic form). The dl- tocopherols are actually a mixture: the d-form and the l-form (usually a 1:1 mixture). The human body uses only the d- form. The l- form, when present, does not confer any known health benefit and is normally excreted by the body. So, in essence, when consuming the dl- form of vitamin E, you obtain an effective dose of about half the vitamin E dosage reported on the label. I noticed a marked improvement in coat when adding natural vit E, even when Jake was on bit dose of Surelimb which contains synthetic vit E. Another example - Vitamin C was first isolated and produced in a supplement form, we did not know about bioflavonoids. They were discovered later. It was found that in nature, bioflavonoids always accompany Vitamin C. In fact, the bioflavonoids are essential for better absorption. They increase bioavailability by 30%. This suggests the natural form of vitamin C is superior. |
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| Nic |
Very good point, Sue, and probably one of the main reasons why plant-based mineral supplements can work better than synthetic/inorganic ones. The same is true of selenium, which is much better absorbed when in a natural form (eg: brewers yeast) rather than as sodium selenite, which is a common source in feed supplements. Although minerals are listed on supplements, you have to ask how much of it is actually available to the horse if they are all in a synthetic form. N |
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| stormybracken |
Blimey - I'm learning more on here than I ever did in chemistry at school
Just shows you have to know the questions to ask, and then what the answer should be! |
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| stormybracken |
Here's another one :
Multi-Worm ingredients 1. Andrographis 2. Chelone Glabra 3. Echinacea 4. Apium 5. Embelia 6. Ochrocar 7. Butea 8. Sulphur 9. Filix Mas 10. Granatum 11. Kamala Haven't heard of this wormer before. Anyone used it? |
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| SueH |
I will get full listing but note that Dodson and Horrell Kwikbeet is less sugar than speedibeet. Its down at 3%. I may be changing to that me thinks.
I do have some Charnwood milling beet which works about about £6 a bag, but thats up there at 8% !!! |
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| vic_s |
Prob has a few naughty things in but my girl likes it
Allen and Page , Ride and Relax Barley- free , Molasses- free and Alfalfa -free. Protein 9.5% Fibre 22.0% Vit A 10,000 iu/kg Vit D 1,500 iu/kg Vit E 80 iu/kg as Alpha Tocopherol as acetate Cu 14.0 mg/kg Oil 4% Ash 9% Ingredients: (25%-40% ) Cereal Straw ( treated) (10%-25%) Peas, Maise , Wheat Syrup,Expelled linseed, Oat straw, Soya , expelled soya oil ,Calcium Carbonate, Di-Calcium Phosphate , Grass Meal, Mint , Sodium Chloride, Garlic, herbs ,FOS/MOS prebiotic , Protexin. Says on website : Estimated DE 9.5MJ/Kg Starch 15% Sugar 5% The vitamin and mineral supplement in these feeds provides Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Copper, Selenium, Vitamin K, Folic Acid, Nicotinic Acid, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamins B1, B2, B6, B12, Biotin, Iodine, Cobalt, Iron, Manganese, Zinc, Calcium and Magnesium. |
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| brucea |
What's wheat syrup and how much sugar has it? What is it the leftover from? | ||||||
| cptrayes |
from google -
Wheat syrup is made form the starch portion of Wheat by milling the wheat, cooking it with water and adding an enzyme like amylase to break down the starch into glucose or maltose (two glucose stuck together). It is possible to also create a fructose syrup with some minor catalytic action. It has the same nutritional value as any other saccharide, 4 Kcal's per gram. The minor mineral content is seen as a defect but is good for you. I'm none the wiser! C |
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| brucea |
So....it's sugar
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| sarahh |
in a whole bunch of words ... yes! | ||||||
| Nic |
Ironic that so many companies market "lo cal" feeds, and in fact you are paying for chopped straw, covered in syrup or mollasses to make the horses eat it....
Bet they would find it harder to market if it was called "Sugar coated straw with added minerals" instead of Ride and Relax/Hi-fi/Happy Hoof etc 
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| vic_s |
When I first got my horse she was shod and very under weight. At the time I gave her some economy nuts and apple chaff( lots of it) The apple chaff smelled great ( thats why I bought it) and was covered with lovely molasses
I figured the wheat syrup would be a naughty iam planning on slowly swapping her to fast fibre and see how she goes.
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| vic_s |
When looking for sugar content in chaff i found this on a website , not sure how accurate its is
Spillers Happychaff - 30% 
Horsehage mollichaff org - 16.5% " " apple chaff 17.5% " " showshine 12% Baileys Golden Chaff 10% (with alf alfa added ) Dengie Hi Fi lite 4% " " hi fi senior 8% |
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| hobnob |
Fast Fibre is only 2 percent sugar - good choice and mine love it !! I make it up 12 hours before and it goes fluffy !! | ||||||
| SueH |
Fast Fibre is tempting at 2%sugar as the lowest I can find is kwikbeet by D&H..... but I'm not keen on :
- paying for a product mostly (min 40 %) straw of unspecified "cereal" source - straw which is "treated" with unspecified chemical - fixed ratio of beet to 'filler' - very little beet here - grass meal: more fupping grass! - oat fibre - what part of oat is that - is that the starchy bit or outer husk or both ? - natural vitamins OK but other " vitamins and minerals"obviously synthetic - garlic - I'm in two minds about this. admittedly the research indicating Heinz-body anaemia was conducted with v high levels but I think I'd rather offer wild garlic and see if they chose to eat it than feed daily garlic which is probably intensively farmed |
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| hobnob |
I feed FF and you wouldnt know it had garlic in it - it smells of nothing !! | ||||||
| zuzan |
speedi beet
Just Grass (at least in winter.. has no additives / preservatives) Micronised linseed Hoofmender (not a full portion because of the below) Brewers Yeast Rosehips Fennel Seeds Fenugreek (in winter) garlic (Global Herbs) Mag Ox |
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| maggie345 |
For those who want to know the details:
Dengie Alfalfa Pellets (via email from their feedline): Typical Nutritional Analysis Dry Matter % 93 DE (MJ/kg) 9 Protein % 16 Oil % 2.5 Ash % 10 Fibre % 32 WSC % 5.5 Starch % 1.7 Fructan % 2.35 Lysine % 0.62 Methionine % 0.13 Calcium % 1.47 Phosphorous % 0.24 Magnesium % 0.17 |
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