| Archive for uknhcp.myfastforum.org Natural hoof care resource forums for all those interested in barefoot horses |
| dorisday |
My Friend Flicka . . .Don't want to get too excited (impossible!) but re the thread 'Can't Go Barefoot' 22.9.09, I mentioned on P.4 about a gorgeous but sad Exmoor pone called Flicka who I was going to try try try and get to come live with me. Cut a long long one short, and having played the long waiting game, it's all coming together. Looks like Flicka will be moving in with us this weekend, and I, for one, can't wait! Shame I can't get her here earlier, as in tomorrow, cos me and my 4-legger crew have a hot date with SarahH, trimmer superior for West Wilts - if you read this before I see you SarahH, hope you're feeling better (full of rotten cold). Will update as soon as and get some Flicka pics on! |
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| stormybracken |
Oooh well done! Am looking forward to your news over the next few months. 
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| becnreps |
Oh thats great!
I remember you talking about Flicka, so glad that you've managed to help her. Looking forward to updates too!
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| horsesfirst |
So how did you persuade boss to part with her?
And just goes to show its not just 'high performance' breeds that suffer with modern management techniques (in reference to those that say 'domestic' horses have had the feet bred off them.) |
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| dorisday |
Hinted re the angle 'I'd love to get her home to sort out her sweetitch' - cos boss knows I already have a sweetitch - didn't mention the flared feet as I didn't want boss thinking I was questioning her equine management skills. Got gently rejected so I gave it a while then last week I casually mentioned that 'my pone is really missing Blas (now on loan in Dorset) and I need to get her a friend' and asked if she had any pones I could 'loan' as a companion. She suggested two, one being Flicka!
I cemented plan and took husband and 12yr old (step)daughter to the yard before I started work to meet Flicka. Saw boss and said I'd accidentally mentioned Flicka to the child-person who now was desperate to meet her. Boss thrilled that child-person keen and is now seriously on board. Just need to set a time now which I will work on this afternoon as I'm working today - just hope my waterproofs have dried out from yesterdays' trail rides eeeuuuggh. |
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| sarahh |
Can't wait to meet Flika!
Give me a call if travel arrangements are causing a problem. me and the pink-mobile can come and do it. x |
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| dorisday |
Woohoo - Flicka has arrived!
Went to collect her with big cob this morning and led her back home with long line. Good as gold. Settled her in to meet the others then went back up this afternoon to give her a big medicated bath (didn't like that!), pick out her feet (didn't like that either!) - managed to get fronts done but No Way Jose to the backs, into stable with wormer in gob (chemical but need to do big clearout cos gawd knows what's inside her and my others are worm counted and clear). Left her there with (very) oversized wicky rug on in stable with big pile of hay and will go up later to take off wicky and slather sudocreme on her sores. The bath revealed lots of sores on saddle area (and she was being ridden . . .) and her tail is awful. Side tum area rubbed but not raw like tail, mane and saddle area. Feet not as bad as I remembered so I reckon she's had a trim of sorts but still overly long and wide with a good 4-5cms outside of the white line. She's so sweet - very looky and cautious but trusting. Pics hopefully tomorrow courtesy of hubbie's clever camera. Oh - PS - edited to add this - husband says her breath smells of sick (it does!). Anyone got any ideas???? |
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| hobnob |
Heres to a new start for Flicka - she sounds lovely.
Smelly breath could be a number of things but I would probably get a dentist in as it could be her teeth. People dont seem to bother with pony teeth, as if they are somewhat different to horses teeth !! Does she have any nasal discharge or lumps on her face from toothy problems ?? Well done you anyway - pics before and during your tlc would be good. I have a sweetitch ponio and LOVE global Herbs Skratch - its amazing if you can get it into them as is STINKS !! Mine loves it though ???? It smells like a bonfire !! |
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| brucea |
Breath smells of sick - possible sinus infection maybe? A couple of tablespoons of neem leaf a day in the feed for a couple of weeks would help with that. Good for all sorts of things and it's not expensive - about £5 a Kg from Cotswolds. | ||
| dorisday |
Quick Flicka UpdateJust a quick update as we have the first trimming today!It's only been a few days but so far I've discovered she's had no basic handling at all! Flicka is Feisty! She has a fantastic talent of rear-ending, head-glaring-with-ears-back, and a new move, the Flicka-Wriggle, which is a nice way of saying she spins on a sixpence and leaps all over the place. But - we are seeing daily progress. I'm now on my second large jar of Sudocreme for her sores, which after the first few days she now lets me do while gritting her teeth, she now accepts fly spray, and - here's the BIG one - this morning I got all four feet up!!!!!! Woooohoooo!!!! Every morning so far it's either been one or the other front hoof, and a big Clear-Orff on the hinds. Then yesterday I got both fronts for a short moment before she slammed each one down and did the Wriggle. I'm learning a nifty foot shuffle myself - keeping well away from her small but perfectly ton-weight slamming hoofs. But today, well! All Four Feet! Admittedly a bit of a Wriggle with the off hind and off fore, but hey, who's worrying. I didn't push it, kept things simple and slow, and learnt a great lesson to boot. Treats - work. After the first willing foot she got a treat. Which led to the next foot almost being offered. After we'd done foot 2 she got a treat. And so on. Why didn't I think to do this before? Now the world is our oyster, with a big pocket of fibre nuts on the go. The husband's camera is at the ready for the hoof photos this afternoon. We have sedation at the ready, more for trimmer's safety than anything, so we'll get pics of the before and after. |
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| stormybracken |
ooooh - to coin horsesfirst phrase "hoofporn"! Luv it.
Do you think she's not happy picking up her feet through distrust or discomfort? Or both? Be careful 
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| horsesfirst |
dorisday - we should compare notes! Grace has it all worked out.
Have you seen her blog? An embarrassingly true story of how a rescue trains her human on how to handle her properly. So far so good. I don't know where you are standing Flicka - but she may be more comfy for trimming if you can put her on rubber, or something conformable. Grace found standing on three legs on concrete very challenging at first until her feet healed. She is very good at telling me which foot really needs to be done first. I am not so good at understanding, but we are making progress. Clicker training was really helpful, even though I wouldn't normally use it, it was perfect for Grace. |
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| brucea |
Was always a problem for me with Link - he was always better shod on grass - an old farrier called him a shiverer but I'm not sure that is the right term. At Bob Bowker's seminar in Aberdeen I had an epiphany about it - and started trimming him on a slice of camping mat and he so was much better. Today he is pretty much fine and we don't need to use the camping mat any more. Pony's hooves aren't so far down the road of improvement and he appreciates the soft surface to stand on. But if you try standing for more than a fre minutes on a hard floor on one leg then you start to get a feeling for what it must be like for them - I tried it and it was on the edge of really painful! |
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| horsesfirst |
And Grace is very particular about all her joints being perfectly aligned and her hoof being tilted 'just so'. I find if I indicate (by pointing) that I want her to lift her foot, she puts it where it is comfy, when I support it for trimming I just have to stick to the comfort zone. If I err she wiggles it back into place. No aggression or narkiness, just a bit of mutual co-operation.
I am afraid I find it very interesting - the 'dialogue'. So long as I listen we get along great. The job gets done and we are both safe and happy. But my vet doesn't approve - it would appear that he would rather get into a fight about it. Can't see the point myself. 
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| dorisday |
Ahem. Well, so much for photos. And Sedalin! Despite a double dose, poor Sarah had her hands full of wriggly and slamming hoofs, I had hands full of wriggly headbutting pone, and that was despite sleepy eyes! Plainly the adrenalin was still pumping!
Fronts got trimmed and rasped - first one fine-ish, second one a bit of a struggle to say the least - only minimal rasping achieved despite a sterling effort from Sarah, so we decided the best plan was to end on a good note (as in, try and get the hoof up and in hand, treat and put hoof down). Hinds, forget it - didn't even go there - she was too wound up. The whole experience for Flicka was obviously stressful and Sarah made a very valid comment that previous farrier trips in all likelihood were horrid for her - no doubt bullied, shouted at, probably thumped, and tied up really short - all which could also explain the minimal hoof attention she's obviously had. So, the plan is that I keep working on it slowly but surely; next trim for the herd is 4 weeks away so I've got 28-ish mornings to work on getting feet in hand with softness and willingness. Horsesfirst - do I ever read your blog - I'm addicted to it! Just love Grace's story. Please explain step-by-step guide as to how you train pone to lift hoof when you point at it - incredible!!! And Horsesfirst, Stormybracken and Brucea, really valid comments about 'comfort' in where I do stuff - we noticed this afternoon when we brought Flicka out of her stable for her trim, that she was mincing a bit on the yard surface (old victorian cobbles - lovely, but a pain to sweep and probably not great to stand on with uncomfy unbalanced long crooked hoof walls). So Sarah suggested putting her on the grass. She was instantly more relaxed, stood straighter and didn't wriggle so much - whether that was the sedative or not, who knows - yet after one hoof she started to get stressed with the whole process. So, we'll keep the sedative to hand and if need be we'll give her a double double dose. Meanwhile, I'll try and enrol a third pair of hands for photos! |
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| horsesfirst |
dorisday - glad you like Grace's blog any hints or tips on anything you would like to see would be warmly welcomed.
And to prove that your wish is my command http://danceswithgrace.blogspot.com/2009/11/easy-foot-lift.html If you read that post and its not clear let me know and I will have another go. I have of course had to 'edit' it and its almost impossible to explain the 'dialogue' we have. But observation of the whole horse body language is very important to my relationship with Grace. I struggled at first because Grace whispered. She would go from the vaguest of ear wags or slight nose wrinkle to full out panic attack in a nanosecond. Now she has a much longer and 'louder' communication path which I think is tailored to my rather slow uptake 
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| dorisday |
Horsesfirst - thanks so much for the instructions. Off to get a clicker tomorrow and start with baby steps. I gave her the morning off feet today as I reckoned she had an overdose of foot attention yesterday - and after the Sedalin yesterday I kept her in overnight and she trashed her box in protest, which I'm saving for a big clear out tomorrow when I have a husband to help! So minimal fuss today, just the Sudocreme slather which she was much more relaxed about, the rugging which she again didn't mind, a ton of flyspray, cuddles, treats and out. After one day, though, she already knows where treat pocket is already, and today she purposely wandered up to me twice in the field from afar, so you never know, maybe I'm making some sort of impression on her - probably carrot flavoured though! | ||
| brucea |
I deeply distrust Sedalin I'm afraid. Link was a real monster being shod when I first got him and we tried Sedalin.
I think it is a bit like when you take one of these drowsy cough medicines or antihistamines - you go in and out and you come to with starts. I never found it effective - just made for a jumpy horse who was drifting off and coming to suddenly. Seems to make them more dangerous to you and to themselves is my observation. |
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| dorisday |
Dyou know Bruce, I think you have a point. I've used it in the past for other pone - when we first got her 4yrs ago she was a Flicka, no handling at all despite massive lies from previous owner to acquire large sum of dosh from gullible me, so we started from scratch with her, then came the first clip, so got Sedalin. Two whole tubes later - still no sedation. Got half a neck off and one very stressed pone who's reaction to fear was to go up on hind legs. Now we do annual jabs/dental/clip in one hit with vet and needle in neck for knock out job - the only way as she won't do dental either. Also my connie who's just a big crybaby and pouts bigtime, hates the clip, and Sedalin did naff all for him either. So we hold a leg up, give him a big trough of never-ending grub, and give the clippers to someone braver than me who stands clear of those cow-kicking hinds. Bless his cotton socks . . . Thank gawd our big softie cob is a clipping joy - makes up for crybaby. | ||
| dorisday |
Sorry Bruce, veered off the subject with all too current clip nightmares - so back to Link - how did you overcome shoeing issues - was it perfect practice and patience makes perfect? All suggestions gratefully received . . . | ||
| brucea |
Basiclly that's it Doris - there are no shortcuts that work...no snake oil.
I worked out 2 things - he had big issues balancing himself and that needed setting him up to be balanced before taking his leg up, and he couldn't stand on one leg for very long becuase of the problems I mentioned earlier - a square of camping mat solved that. But lots of approach and retreat, not keeping the foot when he wanted it back (perfectly reasonable request really if you feel you are going to fall over...why do some farriers just need to have that fight?!), finding bargaining points like I'll scratch your heels if you give me your foot, and just getting him to the point of trusting. I recon he had been given a bit of a beating up when he was shod before I got him and he just expected it. Sadly there are farriers who think the rasp has other purposes than shaping hooves... |
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| micki |
It sounds like flicka has landed on his feet when he came to you. It's so nice to hear that he's not being beaten up to get his feet trimmed.
Brusea i used to have a farrier who liked to use the rasp or hammer (whatever was in his hand) to try to get my horse to stand still. I couldn't get it through to him that the more he hit her the worse she would behave. I looked around for a new farrier and eventually found one who was fantastic with my horses. He would talk to them instead of hitting . My horses behaviour changed so quickly with him doinf her .
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| brucea |
Likwewise - the last farrier I used for the final year that he had shoes was a guy called Ron Aiken - he has TB's of his own and he is a good horseman in his own right. Made a big difference to haev soemone who worked with us and was patient. | ||
| hobnob |
My mare was scared of her own shadow when I got her. I also had to re-train her to pick feet up and as horsesfirst's mare, she will also pick them up when I point. Quite sad really, she will actually pick them up in order when I show her the hoof pick. We do it untied and if she isnt able to stand on 3 legs where she is, she will move - I just follow !!!!!
The gelding on the other hand isnt quite so clever and a little naughty. Mares are so sensitive I would chose one over a gelding anyday. I can almost read her mind. Any tips you may need - feel free to ask. 
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| brucea |
Aren't they daft! |
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