| Archive for uknhcp.myfastforum.org Natural hoof care resource forums for all those interested in barefoot horses |
| Sarah |
February 2009Fox or used to be NJH (navicular jumpy horse) went out with the Cheshire Farmers Drag Hunt on Saturday. The hooves worked most excellently pounding down the road in extended trot, blasting over anything stony, racing over the soggy fields, excellent traction round corners on the wrong leg in gallop but sadly the brain was no match .
He did however do very well for his second time out with a hunt. Caroline and Jazz tried to look after us (thanks) but even Jazz could not convince him that everytime the pack moved he wasn't going to get left behind. Despite a pelham he still kept getting the better of me and I spent an awful lot of the afternoon disengaging the hind end  . I made a critical error at one point when he had got the better of me so much down the road and a track that I was in danger of doing the unthinkable of burning off the whole field including the masters and possibly even the huntsman
When the track opened out I yielded the quarters and came to a screeching stop facing the on coming traffic and decided to try to wait for Jazz and Caroline. Big mistake after ducking and diving left and right and me blocking him he decided the only option was up  Next thing we were vertical ....... time goes slowly and quickly all at once when things like that happen and just as I was thinking let go he is not coming back down someone yelled 'Let go' so gracefully I slid off the saddle and his back end and on to my feet ..... hooorayyyy. I think Fox was totally taken a back and wondered how I had got on the floor his brain just had gone fup! He stood quietly still while I got back on helped by some kindly other hunters and off we went again  Yikes!
Thankfully it was a short afternoon otherwise I think I might now be typing with arms considerably longer than they were last week. I am reliably informed that he should get better once he realises his herd are not going to abandon him. I do hope so 
Next time out I think I will be sporting a standing martingale and a set of reins attached to the lower ring of the pelham instead of roundings. Hooves are still excellent though 
S x |
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| Nic |
...and bare hooves do provide superior traction, particularly when standing vertically balanced on just two of them 
Poor Foxy, Mr Brain obviously had a day off...never a nice feeling Lets just hope he takes after Bailey rather than Ghost
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| brucea |
Thank goodness you're safe Sarah, I've seen awsome injuries from a rear gone wrong. (that just didn't come out right, did it?)
Anni's a good friend - let me rant at her for a whole half hour today before giving me some good common sense advice 
Had the vets out again - now they think it may be laminitis (hot foot, pounding pulse, lame). Vet very concerned about his heel first landing, must be because his toe is sore. Apparently a horse with spavin is more likely to have laminitis as they get older...I didn't know that Vet did acknowledge that hoof abscesses were much harder to diagnose and treat in barefoot horses because "there's all that sole"! So still tubbing and wet poulticing... |
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| hobnob |
Get well soon Link. | ||||
| brucea |
Wed 4th: Update on Link - after 3 more days of poulticing and tubbing there's still no puss on the poultice and he's still lame in trot but seems OK in walk - still heat in the foot but not so big pulses now. Not standing like laminitic or really keeping his weight off the front of the foot - marching out across the yard OK - just pain on turning right and lame in trot!
Frustrating. |
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| cptrayes |
Sounds like abcess not laminites to me Bruce. Or just a bruise somehow, maybe from all the frozen ruts if you have the weather we have.
Sarah I thought Foxy was really quite a good boy for second time out. It could have been lot worse - you saw the horse with the scars on its bum from where it backs into barbed wire in its excitement. Thanks for the mud in the face and all over my jacket as you left Jazz and me in your wake by the way
Can't go today, next week maybe. C |
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| Nic |
Barefoot performance in snow is magnificent - we are the only people on Exmoor able to get our horses out, I should think
A friend with shod horses had one fall over with huge ice balls in its hooves yesterday, and is not going to be able to get her horses out till it thaws. Even turnout will be a problem for them, but there is no stopping the barefoot horses  Andy and I took Jack and Charlie out yesterday afternoon, when the blizzard had stopped. We discovered that our horses were feeling rather too well - Jack and Andy piaffed most of the way 
Charlie was a superstar - ploughing through snowdrifts and taking the weirdness of the landscape in his stride 95% of the time... I can't wait to get out again today - its just started blizzarding again, so I won't inflict that on Felix - he had enough to cope with when I made him come and haul sheep out of snowdrifts with me yesterday
Thanks to Sarah's fab headcam, I have some great footage of us all in the snow, so will post that up later
N |
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| Jill |
Took our girls out in the snow today.
Cuckoo - TB (you know, the one's that can't go barefoot 'cos they have thin soles etc. etc.) went first. Decided she was going to have a TB brain if not feet and did her giraffe on crack impression - everything was spooky . However she did manage to piaffe and passage beautifully around the orchard.
Meggie went next (Welsh witch). Now anyone who's met Meggie knows that she isn't the bravest of horses and isn't too keen on going out on her own. Well she was a star today - barely waited for me to get on before she was off marching round the orchard. Totally ignored the scary 7' tall snowmen in the next field, wasn't fazed at all by the snow falling off the trees onto our heads - so we finished off with a fairly controlled gallop up the hill. YIPEE!!!
Sadly there was no one to wield a camera. Although we did get several comments of 'Oh! you're riding?' He He |
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| Nic |
Jill, its fab isn't it I particularly enjoyed meeting a land rover and 2 pick-ups who were having to dig themselves out of the snow while I went cantering up the lane on Felix
Barefoot horses - the original quad bikes, and still the best
N |
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| Jane |
Amen to that! We've been out with Dan and Magic this weekend - the snowmen and big lumps of snow are terrifying, but its lovely to ride on new snow - or even old snow that no one else has been out on. There isn't a shod hoofprint in sight and we usually meet at least two sets of horses being exercised at weekends.... and at the moment we have the place to our selves
Nearly did a midnight moonlit snow ride last night, it was soooo light with the moon and the snow that I was seriously tempted! Max - 3 months in and the abscesses are over and he's absolutely cracking - fine on snow, deep going (was hard for him) and frozen ruts.... in fact I might have to put shoes back on him to slow him down, he's a 4 yr old nightmare in the field - galloping, skidding, playing, a total thug. And he was so meek and mild when he arrived.
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| sarahh |
Yesterday boy and I were jumping fallen snowmen. Todays mission is to attach a child on a sledge to him.
He loves the snow, especially galloping on it
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| Helen N |
We love the snow riding too!
The lanes were perfect for cantering on yesterday
I met a couple of horsey people who were surprised to see us out
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| hobnob |
Still snowed in. Trimmed lgl pones hinds today and had to use the sharp side of the rasp for the first time ever. Is snow a secret hoof hardner!! Nice clean yummy feet and having no problems over the rutted icy bits either. We trimmed loose and untied whilst eating a pile of hay in the field !! I had a piece of toast though !! | ||||
| brucea |
I've spent the day with the kids and the ponies in the snow....I'm going to sleep tonight - like a stone. |
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| Sarah |
What a fantastic photo Bruce.
Caroline you are totally welcome, tis what happens when cobs rev at high speed Hope fully we will be out next Saturday.
S x |
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| Nic |
More snow stuff - yes, I really was 5 years old over the weekend...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2UBWg1afhs |
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| hobnob |
Wow that is BRILLIANT !! I love the bit "Stready Hec, steady, whoa, steady, ... Sh*t !!"
I want to come hacking with you guys !! Such a shame the vid finished as you were up the their bellies in the snow... ... what happened next ?
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| Nic |
LOL - Hobnob, riding Hector yesterday was like riding a space hopper The other 2 had been out in the snow before but he hadn't and decided BOUNDING was the correct approach - just before the camera ran out he was trying to clear a drift which was up to his chest All I could think was that falling off would be REALLY comfortable - like landing in a pile of duvets
We all stayed on though - memo to self - keep mouth SHUT when wearing headcam Sarah, why didn't you warn me about that bit?!!
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| Nic |
Do I feel sorry for Boy or the child?!! Have a camera at the ready
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| brucea |
Deleted the last post so I could give an update.
Radiographs done this morning - no rotation and no laminitis. Nor are there any visible pedal bone fractures. So that's good news. However vet is concerned about P3 being flat in both front feet and solar P3 angle is less than the 7-12 degrees that he would expect to see. He says there is extra bone growth caudal to the palmar processes. Really not quite sure what the long term management implication of this is - have to go back in tomorrow to review the radiographs with him and plan the way forward. He goes between 1/5 and 4/5 lame on walking around the barn - it's not consistent! There's still a bit of heat in the foot and occasional pulses. |
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| Jane |
Well, today Maxwell the navicular horse came back into work. He is soooo sound having been hooning around the frozen, snowy fields for two weeks. He has been out of shoes for just over 3 months and he know doesn't know he's had/has an issue with his feet.
So out came the tack and we led him up the road with us! He was like a steam train, and when I rode him when he arrived in his shoes, you had to kick like crazy to get him to move at all. Think you could say he's feeling better!
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| brucea |
Had review appointment with the vet today to look over the xrays he took yesterday. Wow - first time I've really seen digital xray quality - so much sharper and such a lot that they can do to manipulate the contrast and quality of the image.
I'll post a couple in the members forum if Nic/Sarah confirm it's OK to do so - some interesting, but inconclusive things. None of them on their own remarkable or would account for the sudden lameness. So still lame on that foot, still some heat in the back half of the foot so deep seated abscess still a favoured bet. No signs of rotation or laminitis indicators at all. Lovely thick hoof wall and sole! It's so fascinating to see them on the inside. One thing the vet did mention was that he is seeing a sudden peak in acute laminitis cases over the last three weeks in our area - some big horses crashing, not just the ponies. |
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| Chris Thompson |
Brego came 5th in the indoor show jumping at Snowball farm on 1 Feb.
Apparently he would have won the jump-off comfortably, but he stopped in it as he was confused by being steered away from an excluded jump on the shortened course for the jump off. Also had to show a trainee vet what real horses feet should look like - she could not get over the consistancy of his hoof bulbs - sort of like firm potatoes and squashy custard. She also had to a double check to see if he was entire - don't think she has seen such a people friendly stallion before. |
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| rose |
Brucea I would love to see the X-rays if it is possible.
A bit worring about the other laminitis cases around, will keep an even closer eye on my girl!! |
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| horsesfirst |
Maybe I should have posted here? I've posted query about QH feet in the other bit of the forum. QH hinds have gone flat and are getting bruised. Fronts have concavity and no bruises. Pictures are here http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com Mare is good on road for about 3 miles then prefers soft verge. Jumps and canters with glee (soft going not road!)
Diet is as sugar free as we can make it - no sugar or simple starches in feed and very limited grass. No heat or digital pulses in feet. |
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| brucea |
Good description Chris! Your mum must have made custard the same way as my mum, the only woman I know who can make custard you need a fork and knife for!
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| Chris Thompson |
OOPs Should have read "...firm potatoes and not like squashy custard" I was trying to explain the difference between how bulbs should feel (firm potatoes) and what they are like on a shod horse (Squashy custard). My mothers custard was unspeakable - but thecustard at boarding school was worse, but we had to eat it
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| cptrayes |
Three hours out with Jazz hunting yesterday, gaily cantering along the stones of a track when the shod horses were trying to get on the verge or keep to the centre grass. Trying not to feel toooo smug as I hear the clop clop clop clunk of all the people whose horses have taken a shoe off in the appalling footing, and will have to make an emergency call to the farrier, again .
I wish he was this sound in the summer, but short of keeping him off grass all summer long I don't think we can manage it. He's not "bad" he just feels stones more than I would like him to. Whilst in winter you can hear the rocks scream as he treads on them 
Zippy has such pronounced concavity that I worry it's too deep. Then he stomps over stones and I think it's pointless worrying about a horse who is so decidedly sound. Button the new Shetland has great foot growth now I have taken off his toes. There was too much horn at the front, although the white line was tight. I suspect he had been allowed to grow feet that curled out in front of him, because there is a very strong deviation line a half inch down, I think from where it was all trimmed off. Quite unusually for a tiny footed pony, I think, his frogs are actually on the floor. Anyway, he was left with too much height at the toe and I have rasped it all off in two stages, and now he is walking really well. It's quite an eye-opener watching a creature with such tiny feet do a pronounced heel-first landing! (ooh dear, do you think I should call the vet? Maybe the fact that he does an extended walk like a dressage horse and lands heel first means that he has toe pain? Do you think that could be why he is galloping around chasing a 16.2 hunter down the field? )
C |
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| SueH |
FINALLY NO BOOTS!! Hacked my navicular TB Jake out (lanes, bridle paths) without boots for first time on Friday.
Hv hacked in boots since going bare July 07. I stuck to boots to protect his non-existent heels and cos vet said it was riding without boots on hard pasture that made him lame july08 (lame 3 weeks). However, the alternative view to Jake's blip was it was part of the heeling + seemed fine galloping round hard winter ground + Feb his best month so best try now + better gauge foot health etc if riding without boots SO time to try it. Well he was outstanding and I was estatic - (after thinking to myself "you've mollicodled this horse you silly woman" ) I know boots are wonderful but I just felt all emotional to be finally out on a completely barefoot horse who was completely happy .
J great on smooth tarmac, and when he hit the grass verge he started jumping about and was off. Gravelly bits OK, just the odd 'ouch' if he landed on an individual stone lying on smooth tarmac. What I did notice was that he seemed way more happier than in boots on tuffty grass/mud (perhaps feeling he had more grip?) .. actually on Sunday - my chum (not a barefooter ) said she's never seen him walk so fast or with such extended paces. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet Will continue to ride without boots and play it by ear. x Sue & Jake |
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| hobnob |
Still all ticketyboo down here but have noticed grass growing through my nice mud paddock I have been making myself this winter. We had a foot of snow 8 days ago and now its gone the evil green stuff is poking out !! Mammoth pulse feeling time again now ! | ||||
| Nic |
Boots impair proprioception just as shoes do - not so badly but they definitely have an effect. Just read the human research on the effect of shoes for running in, and you can safely assume that hoof boots will affect horses in the same way. Its one of the reasons I am not a fan of boots, except in extremis... Great to hear he is doing so well, Sue. I hunted my most recent "navicular" horse, Hector, yesterday - ended up doing miles of roadwork to catch up as the meet was at ours, and they went off like stink Hex a very good boy road-bashing on his own all the way to Challacombe, then behaved like a Space Hopper once we rejoined huntsman and field He should hunt 3 days this week and boy he needs it
N |
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| SueH |
I have been grinning since...and very interesting about boots Nic- and I didnt think of proprioception but now you've said it feels (no pun intended) like that's it having watched him.
We havent yet gone unbooted on tough terrain e.g. knarly mountain paths. I've always felt these would be so much better traversed by a bare unbooted foot, but not sure if his feet would take it so went with boots. But then boots do seem to slip a bit on rocks etc. I have always set a slow pace on what I perceive to be difficult; even in boots. Jake can then pick his way along. BUT then this winter he's been more fwd than ever [ basically he's got better and better since the weird lameness in July08 ] and then out with Sarah (on an unbooted Foxy NJH) and Helen the other month on the mountain trails and Jake [booted infront] sped along v excited to be out with boy-horses with apparently no thought for what was under his feet and was no worse for wear the next day. Bit of an eye opener! It was this that really started me thinking about taking the boots off. x Sue&Jake |
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| Nic |
Boots are often more use for the owner than the horse Not always, but I have had clients get "hooked" on boots and be unable to believe that their horses' feet can function without "protection"...
They end up using boots when they don't need to, and deny the hoof essential stimulus as a result...Thats another reason I don't like boots
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| Chris Thompson |
C'mon Nic you know our horses are freaks of nature.
Tessa still does not believe that Brego can trot down a road without shoes. This is because he will wear his hooves out He does not
Other owners reckon I am cruel not to put shoes on. One has even asked me if I could not afford to have him shod (I will let you answer that one, since I think you have a fairly good idea of my percunary situation)
There is none so blind as those who do not want to see. |
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| SueH |
Well I think I was heading toward getting hooked on boots but at the same time, dying to take them off. Just shows really, you have to get out and about and see how others get on, as it puts things in perspective.
One niggling problem with boots was that J didnt wear his front hooves down by riding out on tarmac lanes etc., whereas the unbooted back were almost self trimmed into a shape more comfy for his stiff hocks. I always felt it was such a shame to miss out on self-trimming of the fronts as this might be a more comfy shape for his shoulders (very asymmetrical and tight) but he couldnt as I was boot-hooked. Plus my vet had stressed the importance of boots so I felt I was doing the right thing....but then it made me ignore all those niggles.... as you say its more difficult for the owner...it was a big step, but only for me. x Sue&Jake |
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| Nic |
Good for you, Sue, to listen to your horse first - his is the true "expert" view as his self-trimming hinds show
N |
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| Helen N |
Hi Sue
Glad you have had the confidence to ditch the boots and that Jake's outing with Carly and Foxy contributed towards that decision I very rarely boot at home nowadays, sometimes I will take Rooster out and think maybe I should put the boots on next time I ride him if he seems to be feeling some surfaces, but I invariably forget to boot and the next tiime I take him out he's fine! On saying that I will use hoof protection on some endurance rides (probably to make me feel better ) if there are going to be a lot of hard stony forestry tracks for instance, but to me that is similar to a shod horse having pads to protect him. I'm saying this at the risk of being shot down in flames, but that is the reality of the situation with some horses and I want to compete mine and the occasional booting is in my opinion better than the shoeing alternative.
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| brucea |
I've been finding that the boots are now more of a hinderance than a help. I don't know what your road surfaces are like - but the tarmac local to our place is pretty worn and he's just sliding in the boots and we both feel safer without them. He has a mincing stride in them. I do carry them when we are going to the forest and put them on if he is uncomfortable over the sharp fist size granite rock tracks, but try to get them off again as soon as.
They were indispensible though in the first six months. |
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| Helen N |
Smooth tarmac is in my opinion anyway one of the best surfaces for barefoot The problem with doing a long endurance ride is that you get such a variety of terrain a booting decision (for me) would have to be made depending on the what the majority of the going will be. So if there were only a couple of miles of stony tracks and the rest were grass then I certainly wouldn't bother with boots. I'd rather be out there and doing things with my horse even if it means resorting to boots on occasions. I carry a boot bag attached to the saddle so that I can remove the boots if I feel they are unecessary or are a nuisance, but if you are competing you can't be getting on and off your horse changing boots every 5 minutes, so I would go for completely barefoot on most occasions
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| Nic |
Boots definitely have their uses, don't get me wrong, particularly where horses are footy because of dietary issues that the owner can't resolve (g metabolic disorders) or in the early days to boost confidence, as Bruce described.
However, my experience has been that they are way over-used, often by people who haven't yet got their heads round the fact that their horses feet aren't going to fall off when they go over stony tracks - present company of course excepted, I am talking about owners who are new to barefoot
I was fortunate, in hindsight, because there is no way you can hunt in boots, and in fact when I first took our horses barefoot you couldn't get boots to fit them anyway, and renegades were only a twinkle in Kirt's eye. If I had resorted to boots, maybe I would never have appreciated how well healthy hooves stand up to extreme terrain - luckily for me, after hunting Felix one day, and spending a large proportion of the day gallopping over flints, crushed hardcore and half-bricks, I was amazed to see he suffered no ill effects and just became determined to try and make the other horses as capable as him
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| Terry |
I would certainly agree with Nic, and think I was also in the very fortunate postion of what seems many many years ago trying a pair of easy boots, at a pleasure ride only to return to the venue just wearing the gaiters!! This was the one and only occassion I have ever worn boots on any of mine, I think it is much easier if you have never had to use them, but I agree with some horses for periods of time they may require them.
My view would be that they would certainly hinder the conditioning work I do, I also am a bit of a stuburn pig when it comes to competing in that I really want to show those vets out there what performance can be achieved totally bear! But at the end of the day it is what suites all and there is no right and wrong way, we should just be out there enjoying our horses, Terry 
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| horsesfirst |
We have tried boots on Dots - but her feet changed so fast they only fitted for a month.
We ummed and ahhed with Snips, but so far have managed without, although its been worrying at times. Esp when we had some questionable advice from a non UKNHCP source. Having thought I would struggle to ride and lead the girls because Snips is quite quick to kick and we have to hack on roads, we actually managed it today - so that will make keeping them exercised much easier. We did do lots of supervised practice before today's effort. Snips who used to crawl around in agony on anything other than grass when we got her in April 08 is now really rather forward on a variety of surfaces. Not yet tried limestone crush, but we are working towards it. Nearly ended up cantering down the road today, but fortunately both girls know their word commands. Slightly alarming when they decided to have a trotting race, but again they were good enough to bottle it when asked. Although she is on grass it is restricted to foggage and track. Although I am sure it is highly questionnable I am experimenting with Athletes Foot Spray for Pics dodgy frogs - which smell of feet rather than 'thrushy'. So far so good. |
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| Helen N |
[quote="Terry"]I would certainly agree with Nic, and think I was also in the very fortunate postion of what seems many many years ago trying a pair of easy boots, at a pleasure ride only to return to the venue just wearing the gaiters!!
Yes, that was very amusing Terry
This was the one and only occassion I have ever worn boots on any of mine, I think it is much easier if you have never had to use them, but I agree with some horses for periods of time they may require them. My view would be that they would certainly hinder the conditioning work I do, I wouldn't use boots for conditioning work either
I also am a bit of a stuburn pig when it comes to competing in that I really want to show those vets out there what performance can be achieved totally bear! That's OK if you are totally confident that everything is will be fine because if not they are bound to say say that you have failed because the horse is barefoot
But at the end of the day it is what suites all and there is no right and wrong way, we should just be out there enjoying our horses, Exactly It would be so nice to live in an ideal world but may of us out there have to do the best we can with what we have, horses are an expensive luxury for most of us and the reason we have them is to ride and enjoy them without compromising the horses' welfare
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| brucea |
We bought 000 boots for Bramble as soon as he went barefoot - and he was out of them within 6 weeks when his feet suddenly decontracted and his heels wouldn't fit in them - had to go up a size. Unfortunately for him we need the boots to cut down the concussion on his feet when he is driving on the tarmac at fast trot (had lami last year). There will come a time we hope when he won't need them, but at the moment I'm reluctant to risk the concussion.
On to other things... Here are a couple of xrays of Link's feet - some very interesting things going on with bone remodelling. I'm not too worried about any of it and wonder just how much of it is due to him coming out of shoes and responding to a different set of streses and loading. I must say I was most fascinated at the quality of the digital x rays over the conventional plates. 
Click to see full size image 
Click to see full size image I was chatting today with one of my clients in Vancouver who has 4 horses. May get a chance to go riding in the foothills of the BC rockies this weekend if the weather keeps up. Work can be so hard sometimes
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| Nic |
Bruce, just to thoroughly queer the pitch for you there is research into human footwear that has found that those lovely big cushioned trainers that people run in DON'T actually stop concussion.
What they actually do is fool the proprioceptors in the foot so that they think they are running on a soft surface. In fact the impact forces on the joints remain just the same. This can cause problems in people running on roads (including Andy!) as they lengthen their stride because the surface "feels" less concussive, and actually make the concussion on their joints worse Running barefoot (people and horses), this doesn't happen, and they naturally shorten their stride to reduce concussion because proprioception tells them that its a concussive surface.
Those nice pads you can put in boots will have the same effect, I am betting 
N |
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| Terry |
I thought you were there Helen, gosh that seems ages ago when I had the eayboot experience!!
Nic, Bruce, interesting regarding the cushioning in footware and the advise regarding minimising concussion. Most people in endurance think I am a bit of an obsessive with feet, but luckily respect what I do as I don't preach or even try to speak barefoot to other advanced riders, however, what they don't realise is I am keep a bit of a log on their results and how they train and compete. Most pad on all four feet and try to achieve speeds in excess of 19km/hr over tough terrain, can you remember Cirencester Nic when we used your little gadget for measuring heat in the feet?? Any way it has been fascinating to see how in the main the horses achieving the higher speeds padded all tend to have muscular/tendon injuries post competition due to concussion despite being padded. I just struggle to see how people cannot see the common sence approach, where there is softer going why they don't use the grass verges, but they seem to think I'm padded so that's ok I will do extended trot down a slippery tarmac road, I just wish I had my video camera and could slow the filming down to then show the strain the the check ligaments as they go!! Any way that's their loss and mine and my horses gain
Terry |
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| horsesfirst |
Our little QH is probably the soundest she has ever been. Forward going, really striding out and enjoying her jumping. But if anyone looks at the soles of her feet I know we are going to get lots of ear bashing and disapproval because they happen to have rather a lot of bruises on them. 
Now I understand that bruises can take a long time to come out on soles, so I guess they probably happened before Christmas, but it still looks really bad
We were thinking of doing a 24km NCR on 22 March but I wonder if we should wait until the bruises have gone? |
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| Helen N |
The problem is that when we compete in endurance barefoot it's not a level playing field (no pun intended ) People competing with shod horses (and possibly padded as well) will travel at higher speeds over terrain that our barefoot horses might sensibly want to slow down on and shorten their stride, therefore the shod horse would have the advantage. This is when one might be tempted to use boots. Using boots might help you on the day but similar to the shod horse, long term damage caused by concussion could still occur. I can see that argument, so perhaps I shouldn't be doing endurance unless I can do it without hoof protection OR I could look at it another way and think well my horses don't have metal shoes nailed on to their hooves 24/7, they are correctly trimmed with all the benefits that brings to their 'hoof health', if I boot them a 2 or 3 times a season to do a competitive ride, how much harm in the wider scheme of things is that going to do?
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| SueH |
Hi Helen - it was lovely to ride out with you and Sarah - inspiring stuff.
I feel safer unbooted cos I feel more confident about his traction. NOT that I had any bad experience slipping in boots but I just felt like we might so I held back. Then, when I watched Carly and Foxy, they just seemed to me to be just more confident in placing their feet than Jake. Made me fink Getting out everday now to condition their feet; useing grass verges here and there just to vary the terrain. Yesterday was magic: I had no time at all but promised myself he would hit tarmac everyday, so just slung on single rein + halter and legged it out bareback on fat and furry TB stromping along the lanes. Fabulous
Haylage delivered this week quite strong - no effect on J feet as far as performance. Been bit picky about food since tasty haylage came, but grated an apple in it this morning and it went down. Just for record: Current feed is Breakfast: small scoop alfalfa nuts + scoop speedibeet (soaked = very sloppy) + 500g mic.linseed + 50ml scoop seaweed + 30g MgO + 50g surelimb VitMin + tbsp salt + 2 nat.vit E capsules + spearmint + + slosh cider vinegar + bit of carrot/apple. Tea - Handful of alfala chop and scoop of speedibeet (again sloppy) + 50 ml scoop seaweed. Speedibeet and alfalfa increased according to workload. x Sue&Jake[/i] |
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| Helen N |
For the record mine are fed on, twice a day;
Tikki (the 30 year old retired mare) -- 2 cups Allen and Page Fast Fibre Rooster - 8 year old arab in work - 2 cups Fast Fibre and one cup Calm and Condition (Allen and Page), half cup of Baileys Outshine. 15mls Mag Ox Carly - 15 year old arab in work, (a poor doer and fussy with it ) 2 cups calm and condition, half cup Fast Fibre, one cup of Outshine, 15mls Mag Ox
I do not feed alfalfa because Carly won't eat it and I am not prepared to starve him until he does plus it seems make Rooster go rather more nutty than he can be already! They have 3 full nets of haylage each per day, access to 3 acres of rough grazing, a large hardcore area partly under shelter where they eat. It is not my own property so I am unable to install a track system, much as I would like to (I should have worked harder at school or married a man with financial potential )
On the whole Carly and Rooster's feet work very well, but we have occasional blips which I am sure are down to subtle diet changes (haylage from a different source for instance) changes in the weather or workload. Hi to Sue and Jake
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| brucea |
Hmmm Nic - thought provoking idea. I wonder if we should try gently introducing him to driving without his boots and see how he gets on. I've always been concerned about the effect of the impact on weakened laminae - although now he has a good tight white line maybe I can be less concerned. | ||||
| Nic |
Bruce, TBH, so much of what we all to has to be based on that great scientific principle "suck it and see" There just isn't enough research out there, and everytime I learn something I only just seem to catch up with what my horses have been telling me all along
The fun of barefoot is being at the cutting edge Let us know how you get on, and have fun this weekend!
N |
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| brucea |
Nic, I think I am a text book case of "neurotic owner syndrome". I hope there is a cure, but it may be a poor prognosis. | ||||
| horsesfirst |
Snips (aka Madam) made her Mum Sally very proud today. They successfully completed their very first clear round (first for both of them!) Barefoot natch, but nobody noticed... but maybe they would have if they'd had one down Beautiful day and if we ignore kicking Pics in the field, Snips couldn't have behaved more perfectly. (An equine two fingered salute maybe - because normally Pics has to give Snips a lead over everything.)
Hacking over the South Downs afterwards Snips found the flints and sharp stones a bit of a challenge, but was fine on tarmac and grass. Her frogs are a bit rubbish and I swear her heel bulbs have deflated over the winter. |
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| rose |
I just can't seem to make my girl completely comfortable this winter. I don't really know why.
I have just tried her off grass for 24 hours and then reintroducing limited grazing for around 4 to 6 hours per day. She had hay and her ordinary feed overnight and she is significantly better on her pins today although I booted her all round to do a 2 hour hack. When I rode her out on Friday she was very reluctant going down hill and not at all keen to canter, today with 24 hours off grass she was much more forward going. So I did my first poo pick of the year - such a joy! |
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| SueH |
Friday hacked Jake (unbooted) rougher bridle paths just to see how we are doing - I do get off on knarly steep bit, but he romped up it amazingly well going uphill. I was pretty gobsmacked. Much better doing this out of boots than in. We hit grass trails after this section and he was off.
However much Less keen coming down knarly section, takes his time and stops for breaks, presumably as heel does more work, so maybe just that bit too much too soon. Really its no change as Jake not keen coming down this knarly section in boots either cos even the best boots in the world slip over the smooth stoney bits. He was no worse for wear but we'll pick an easier decline for now. 1.45 hours sunday on tarmac roads - jumping (literally ) onto grass verge where possible to give heels a break. Loves romping up tarmac; slows up/avoid loose gravel ontop of smooth surface. Takes steep declines very slow [always has - prob due to stiff hock rather than navic].
x Sue & Jake |
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| horsesfirst |
Just to keep everything in balance Sally made sure to fall off in spectacular fashion on Sunday. Snips did a super downhill jump over a ditch but Sally decided not to.
Snips going well over tarmac and jumping in the woods. Had two hours eating new grass in the early morning. Feet are not wearing down. Will try to do more this week. Athletes Foot Spray seems to be having good results on Pickles rubbish front frogs which are improving significantly. The substance of the frog is better and the sulcus no longer resembles the grand canyon. I will continue and if progress is still good I will move on to back feet which are currently deteriorating. If only my OH paid as much attention to his feet .....
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| SueH |
Will be keeping careful watch now - this week temperatures set to rise to 10 deg and above. So considering getting Jake on to grass-free pen during the day at least.
x Sue & Jake |
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| horsesfirst |
Landlord on holiday. I am charged with keeping an eye out for burglars. I am not sure what I am supposed to do with them if I find any because the instructions didn't cover that bit So naturally being efficient we combined two jobs and trotted the girls ride and lead up his gravel drive...
The trotting was their idea, not mine and so was jumping the line of bricks at the end. I am guessing they are not feeling footy today
The brakes did come into play before we actually ended up in the house... |
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| hobnob |
I know I really shouldnt speak too soon but we still have no pulses or footiness despite being out on GROWING grass. The green shoots are definatley coming up through and I am sure this time last year when it warmed up after a snowy bit I had to put lgl girl on the track. Still having hay in field but am cutting it down as grass increases. Have cut out H i Fi Lite now and on Fast Fibre as I was trying to eliminated sugar. It MAY be working so far but I doubt it will last. Will keep checking those pulses twice a day !!
Seems really strange to see them in an actual field grazing instead of on the track. |
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| sarahh |
Up and down month for the Hodges clan. Moved the boys to a new yard at the beginning of the month. Not ideal from a barefoot point of view in that its a dairy farm, so rich grass. However I was sick of them being in mud up to their bellies and with fences that constantly broke.its also opposite my house!
After a few days gorging himself on the novelty of grass, Boy was rather sore. Especially of the fist sized pointy stones on the track. Interestingly though, no pulses. I had been checking twice a day. As I had dropped him to a maintenance level of minerals a few months back, I upped that and it seems to have done the trick. Did notice slight ouchiness returning after 1 day of not feeding though. Tyler has remained fine throughout, although as he's not being ridden I may have missed some soreness. So I will need to learn to manage my boys more strictly now that we are on actual grass. Have planted the seeds of a track system in the farmers head. Also got his girlfriend thinking of taking her horse barefoot. And the boys are much happier. Ending the month on a positive note, but its certainly been a learning curve as to how sensitive the Boy pony is! X |
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| brucea |
Minus 30C in Calgary this morning - so cold your head aches! The snow squeaks when you walk on it!!!
But at least it's not raining
Can you believe the horses I saw on the way in from the airport are unrugged - living rough. Our guys don't know how good they have it! |
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| horsesfirst |
Hi Bruce - I hope you have a good trip.
Not a big fan of rugging if it can be helped - it denys them their ability to regulate their temperature and anyway my old girl looks terrible when she's been rugged. So I try and give them lots of shelter options and tons of appropriate quality hay. But I realise this is not possible for everyone especially at livery. I've been to so many livery yards where the fields have no shelter at all - which must be particularly miserable in the summer. Mind you Harvey Smith keeps his very posh expensive TBs unrugged on Baildon Moor (near my in-laws) in all weathers with no shelter at all and they look perfectly healthy and even fat. That said the QH lives 24/7 in a Boatt because she is not only prone to sweet itch but is also allergic to the bite of the poo fly (more poo talk!). But at least it doesn't weight her fur down. Poor sod was bald on her tummy when we got her. |
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| brucea |
Well got back today and headed up to see my lads. Muddy and slippery here.
Link was covered from head to tail with mud! He seems to be much more comfortable on that foot and was moving around without too much evidence of lameness. He's still taking the odd slightly ouchy step on hard ground but nowhere near as bad as he was. No sign of abscess egress though. I still think there is a little heat in the foot, but there wasn't a pulse |
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| horsesfirst |
Bruce
Glad to hear Link seems to be feeling better. Cross fingers for you that he is fully recovered soon. My two didn't seem to get over sugared yesterday despite blazing sunshine. Took them off the 'new' grass at lunchtime and put them back on the foggage. Feet cool, although Pickles sugometer was showing a bit. |
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| rose |
There is a cob on my yard who is shod in front and bare behind and her owner was chatting to their farrier the other day asking what he thought of her going bare all round. He said whilst she was fine behind the front feet took more weight and were therefore more sesceptible to abcesses etc if bare.
Low and behold the pony went hopping lame the next week on a front foot. Vet took shoe off and dug out the hoof looking for an abcess didn't find anything but pony put on restricted movement and poulticed daily. The owner was thinking - so much for the theory of bare feet abcessing when it was her shod foot which apparently did. Anyway in the end said pony got a bit better but not sound so was scanned and it was apparenty a splint. Interesting view from the farrier though. |
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| brucea |
Quite a few of the mares in the yard are coming into season - so a lot of squealing, bucking and farting, and general ill temper. The geldings are going a bit potty too and there have been a few kick injuries. This happens every year, and usually settles down in a few weeks. Also new growth really apparent now - the trashed areas are showing bright green shoots
I'm coming to the conclusion that there is an awful lot to learn about abscesses, their causes and progress. I thought they were simple, but nothing ever is. |
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| SueH |
Jake still out of boots. Absolutely stomping off on turf, flat tarmac. Amazingly capable going up knarly (big stone and mud) bridlepath up to mountain - the one path I thought he would struggle on. Not bad coming down it either this weekend and that was after 2.5 hours of hacking. Keeping to kinder tracks on mountain for now.
Fairly unbothered by big stones and tiny gritty surfaces when first out but still ouchy with 1cm dia. stones on flat surface. Dislikes steep inclines at all times - takes em slow but think it jives his hock. Increasingly ouchy on gritty surfaces the longer we stay out. My chum (not barefoot) just shrugged her shoulders and reminded me that its early days yet and he needs to build up feet - support comes from the unlikeliest places eh? Clearly we have hoof conditioning work to do but overall I remain impressed by bootless Jake. May need to start working on brakes though starting to run out of track....
Recent haylage has been rather strong and tasty plus grass looks like its growing - one of these is reason for Jake missing lots of meals this week  - turning his nose up which means NO mag, seaweed etc. and today scouring/loose poos . So toda I've topped up with meadow hay now and at last he's eaten a feed. Jaylage/ lack of Mag etc. could be making him more footy on gritty surfaces, so he's been restricted to mud /hardcore/peagravel pen today.
x Sue & Jake |
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| horsesfirst |
Snips did just over 7 miles yesterday and c. 6 today. Variety of surfaces, lots of road but nothing very taxing stone wise. Sound as a bell and walking like a horse rather than the 14hh titch that she is. Pics kept up except for the canter bits. (I don't run that fast). Tiny bit of jumpies and lots of controlled canters (as in not tanking off.)
Except for squaring off the toes, feet are not wearing down at all which is a pain coz Pics is underrunning again. Farrier may never come back into work having been badly injured recently so we are a bit stuck. I will try and squeeze in another 12 miles on the road during the week. Although they are both in season they are being brilliant. |
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