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'Blue tongue' Dressage Facebook group.
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becnreps



Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 104


Location: West Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sadly - if the FEI ban this in warm up areas and training events - it will probably still be carried out in the privacy of closed schools with no spectators.    

Crying or Very sad
Although, if the FEI ban this kind of training and the message could also get to dressage judges then these kind of people would not even be getting placed in the competitions, let alone winning. All the people that work their horses 'correctly' and fairly would do better, thus forcing people into training their horses in a better way?
(Dont know if that makes any sense...!)

I watched the video and I nearly cried for all those poor horses. I really dont make any wonder that they only have a very short career span.  Sad

When I was watching the video, how can horses that are so clearly on the forehand do this well in dressage competitions?! They are so tense, stiff and obviously in some kind of pain! I thought dressage was all about 'free', 'easy' and 'fluid' type movement?!
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brucea



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 1134


Location: Aberdeen

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching a lesson at our yard this morning as I was cleaning the paddock and it was quite interesting to see.

There is a real obsession with having horses heads tucked in on an "outline" and it seems almost to be obsessive- never mind the horse is hollow and obviously uncomfortable, can't use its shoulders properly, or use the head and neck for balance (like it was actually designed for!)  - and being forced into a riding position that no horse would naturally carry itself in.  No release either if the horse gives in - the position is just held.

It is at all levels of dressage - until the recognition that there is a "natural" and an "unnatural" way for horses to move and that the "natural" one causes far less long term health and welfare concerns - things won't improve - and that has to start at the elite levels to set the example.

I'm no dressage expert - but I don't think that you can possibly have a natural weight bearing shape and forward going attitude if the rider is holding onto the mouth like a rabid 60Kg terrier!
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becnreps



Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 104


Location: West Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm no dressage expert - but I don't think that you can possibly have a natural weight bearing shape and forward going attitude if the rider is holding onto the mouth like a rabid 60Kg terrier!


I'm no expert either but you're right. There can be no 'lightness' either.
With Repsol, I've spent a year working on him. We still dont have a proper 'outline' (could be due to other things but who knows!) BUT what I do is encourage rather than force.
A young girl (who learns from mainly watching her mother) said to me the other day:
"No, you're doing it wrong! You're not supposed to let go a bit when they do it (outline), you've got to hold them there!"
And you're right Bruce in that everyone is 'obsessed' with the head being in an "outline". Doesn't matter what the rest of the body is doing, just as long as the head is down!   Rolling Eyes
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cracky



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 29


Location: N.Yorks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Director of Communications at FEI Richard Johnson has responded on facebook group.
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cracky



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 29


Location: N.Yorks

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A link put up on the facebook group which I think (what I can fully undrstand that is!) very interesting and as well as the harmful effects both metally and physically of hyperflexion it also has a strong message that it is actually pointless as a training/exercise tool!!!
http://scienceofmotion.com/documents/hyper-flexion.html
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SueH



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 469


Location: Gorsedd North Wales

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's simply no need to hold anything of the horse in place including the head - just tell him to put it there and then leave him alone until he stops and then tell him again.Its called schooling : and he shouldnt have it there independently of engaging his belly to lift his back,  asking him to get off his shoulders, and getting those hocks working.etc etc. the WHOLE horse approach...just like barefoot  Wink  

I'm happy to have 'contact' or 'feel' but not holding or carrying them in place - even out of sheer practicality: who's the strongest out of me and my horse - YUP Jake! he can hold his own bloody head thank you !
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SueH



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 469


Location: Gorsedd North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting questions being asked now - on the wider question of "what' in it for the horse ?"

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2009/07/133.shtml
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brucea



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 1134


Location: Aberdeen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great article. Challenges so much of the current accepted practice of sporting horsemanship.

Quote:
We need always to bear in mind that it's the tractability of horses that makes them a pleasure for us to work with - but it also makes them especially vulnerable to abuse.

"We must not take horses for granted and must strive to understand better our impacts on them, and continually strive to reduce them. Which means reassessing what's good, what's normal, and what's plain bad."


[/quote]
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SueH



Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 469


Location: Gorsedd North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently there is big conference etc. and you can access the reports - they dont make for light or pleasant reading in many cases.



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